My very strange pears

Yes, certain plants are more sensitive to 2,4-D than others. We don’t like to spray cotton with anything that has ever had 2,4-D in it. Last time we used it, it took 3 years for it to totally clear out. We would park the sprayer on Friday and start spraying again on Monday and have damage from the lines releasing small amounts of 2,4-D that the soft rubber had absorbed 3 years earlier.

First of all, that so many people with no real personal connection to me would take so much time and effort to solve my problem is absolutely astounding to me and words cannot express my gratitude. Secondly, the LEVEL of attention and detail and research you folks did is utterly amazing to me and you would make great detectives in our Police Department! You all noticed things in those photos (like a wheat field, damaged dandelions, lack of grass under trees, etc) that was barely visible and demonstrates amazing attention to detail. Thirdly, and most importantly, there is no doubt in my mind that you all have 100% solved this mystery and correctly identified the problem- it absolutely has to be 2-4-D.

Surprisingly, it was applied to a grass hay field that joins my property! All the broadleaf pants in the field are either dead or look exactly like my trees with curling, strange growth and limp leaves. I distinctly remember the last few years that hay field was as much weeds as it was hay. I used to even be surprised that they bothered to cut it for hay it had so many trash plants and weeds. This year…its nearly perfect grass hay. So I can be sure the farmer will be thrilled with the results and almost certainly do it again next year. There are lots of other reasons why I know the problem is 24d spray. The trees closest to field were hit worst. My big old pear tree with a super thick canopy has the wacky growth all around the outside canopy but the leaves closer to the inside (and therefore protected by the outer leaves) are unaffected. If it were systemic I think all leaves on the tree would be equally effected. Also, the young leaves on my apricot trees that were super green and healthy at first have all turned yellow, then brown, then died, so I bet anything they are one of the above mentioned trees that are more sensitive to 2-4-D. I could go on, but you (and now me since I know what to suspect and look for) all know the correct diagnoses. 2-4-D.

I cannot tell you how devastating and heart breaking this is for me. It very, very likely means the end of my fruit tree hobby which has become such a big part of my life. I know you are all going to tell me to go to the farmer and demand he do something to prevent damaging my property, but its way, way more complicated than that. To start with, the farmer is the Mayor, which makes him (sort of) my boss (I work for the City). I know…that doesn’t give him the right… Also, My land is surrounded by 4 farms…all of which are within 500 feet of my trees, all owned by different farmers, all rotate wheat, soybeans, hay, and other crops that get sprayed. That means each one can say it isn’t them and blame the other…if I wanted to go accuse all 4 of them which I really don’t. The nature of my job and role in the community complicates things to…its just not in my best interest to anger the biggest farmers (every one of them are major farmers who farm thousands of acres in this area) in a community made up of farmers and with a farm based economy. Another complicating factor is that a couple years ago a big organic farmer in this area went around and demanded all farmers stop using round-up ready soybeans because they were cross pollinating his and preventing him from selling his seed as non GMO. He also threatened to sue them for over-spraying which he said was endangering his organic certification. He had some fair complaints and may have even won in a court case, but the way he handled it just angered everyone and made them refuse to accommodate him and he has now become a social pariah and set an awful tone for this kind of situation.
I know you guys may remind me that no one has a right to kill trees on my own property and I should force them to stop or complain to some authority. And you may say my reluctance to do so is just cowardice and a refusal to stand up to my rights…but as I’ve said, its a complicated environment and I have to consider many factors before approaching 4 landowners and telling them they must stop using a product that they rely on for a living so it won’t effect my hobby. Now, I will be talking to them and asking them to at least be aware of what happened and try not to spray on windy days and take any reasonable steps they can. But that’s about as far as I’ll probably take it. And the grass hay field is literally 15 feet (yea, 15 FEET) from all my pear trees so Its hard to imagine they can do anything except not spray to prevent a 15 foot overspray. Seeing how great the hay looks this year- I doubt they’ll stop using it.
I don’t know why I’m telling you all the whole sordid details of my situation! Sorry.
Point is, you solved my mystery, and I am forever grateful. Thanks again.

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All you have to do is anonymously report him to the EPA.

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I imagine that some will think you to be rolling over when your personal property rights are being trampled on…but I applaud you putting people and community relationships first before your hobby. The farmers after all are just trying to make a living and im sure have no idea that they harmed your trees. And with how close the orchard is to the fields there may be nothing that can be done to always prevent it.

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now THAT is a very interesting approach! One I may well follow. Thanks, Richard.

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Fact is, the farmer (or whomever sprayed) is breaking the law – and being quite inconsiderate in the process.

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Maybe if you put an evergreen hedge around the borders of your property they could take the brunt of the drift. They are not broadleaf plants either.

I take it you are referring to conifers? Around here, “evergreen” could refer to purple hopseed bush, texas privet, eugenia, and so on.

City, we sit on both sides of the equation. We farm about 3500 acres but our houses side another farm. They sprayed roundup and had bad drift and severely hurt my sister-in-laws flowers and trees. We simply talked to him about the damage and we have never had another problem. Think about if it were you farming how you would want it handled. Just bring up the situation in a friendly manner and the farmer will probably do everything in his power to make sure this never happens again. He can lower the boom right off the ground, lower pressure along your trees to help lower the mist and spray when the wind is blowing in the opposite direction. Farms have yards too that they don’t want damaged, they are sympathetic to your cause. I doubt the mayor is driving the tractor and the driver probably doesn’t even know whats happening. You need to bring it to their attention in a calm manner just explain how much this means to you, don’t be calm the second time. I got a feeling they will know who sent in the anonymously report and cause even more problems for you down the road, maybe not in the garden but at work. My trees are right next to a field and have never gotten any damage, it can be done. People in any walk of life will generally go the extra mile for people they have a good relationship with. Be nice, show them pictures of the damage and they will work with you.

Also you need to tell them because other people may have the same problem and not know the cause, thinking they may have a soil or some other issue.

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If you have a dog watch it closely it may be the next victim.
Dogs are in danger of Chronic toxicity from 2-4-D. due to the fact that dogs do not
excrete organic acids efficiently.

Again, thanks to you all. I’m between dogs right now (trying to get over the death of my best (dog) friend b4 I get another) so at least I don’t have that worry. But here is the thing…the situation is a lot worse than you all know about. I have several other weird things happen that I am now almost certain is 2-4-D related. For example, I had the strangest cherry blooms you have ever seen in your life. Basically, they bloomed WITHOUT PETALS. Really. Just picture a cherry bloom and then remove the white part (petals). They still had the lower, greenish “cup” (sepal) and the stamen and pistil, but no petals. How strange is that? Then there are my blackberries. They started great, then just turned yellow and stop growing. Didn’t die (yet) but just sort of froze in time after turning yellow. I was so mad at myself because I was convinced that I had allowed some drift from glycol spray even though I knew I’d been extremely careful. My apricot trees started great, then suddenly all the leaves died almost overnight…no yellow stage, just died and started to rot on the trees. Since everyone has told me I can’t grow apricots here, I figured my trees were proving them right, even though my zone is right in middle of apricot recommended zone and they had done good for 3 years. My apple trees all have leaves that curled into each other. Nothing as dramatic as the pears and no extra long stems. I had been thinking maybe it was copper because this is first year I applied it and I mixed it a tiny bit stronger than called for. I could go on, but the easiest thing would be for me to just tell you what was NOT effected. Peaches. Strange, but true. All the aforementioned trees and berries were further from the spray than several of my peach trees, yet they seem unaffected.

C5tiger- I really liked you suggestion, mostly because it honestly does fit my personality and really is the way I’d handle it. In my job I deal with conflict and people complaining on a weekly basis. As a public servant it really is my nature to have a thick skin and to approach things from a positive, friendly position. The old saying about catching more flies with Honey than vinegar is true in my experience. People generally respond better to people being calm, rational, polite, and explaining the problem and asking for help than they do with someone being irate and making demands and threats. So it was wise advice and I intend to follow it. As you said, if I was the guilty party I’d want to know I had caused a problem and be given a chance to not repeat it. All my neighbors are good people and will probably feel the same. The best news I got in this round of replies is what you (c5tiger) told me about it being possible to avoid overspray on close-by trees. In my mind I had decided the only choices were going to be for me to put up such an incredible fight that the neighbors would have to stop using 2-4-D or me just not growing fruit, and as I said before, I was going to be reluctant to force them to stop spraying and therefore interfere deeply with their livelihood-even if I had the right. Knowing the two aren’t incompatible gives me hope.
Thanks again, everyone.

Keep doing what your doing if it is important to you. When you talk to the farmers be nice but also truly express how much these trees mean to you and how devastated you were by the damage. You may also want to put up a sign along the field reminding about drift. The person that gets told about the spraying may not be working there next year and the new guy may not know anything about it.

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I agree 100%. At the very least (and I do mean the very least) I’d call him up and ask him to come over and take a look. Let things go if you like, but at least make sure he knows what he did. He damaged your property…plain and simple.
I also agree he was likely being at least somewhat reckless with the stuff. If he didn’t see the trees and understand the possible damage that could ensue, he shouldn’t be spraying it…period.
The hay in his field is no more important that the fruit on your tree. I tell you if he responded with anything other than sincere regret and apologies I’d quickly become his worst nightmare.

Just because a person owns a property does not necessarily give them the lawful right to spray a pesticide to the property line. A buffer zone is required - which increases in size in the event of wind, and there are also restrictions on droplet size to mitigate “drift”. The federal govt is very serious about the statement on the label “It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling”.

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I’m a little late reading this topic/thread. Agree w/ everything that’s already been established (i.e. herbicide drift, but not Round Up). Round Up damage doesn’t look like that.

I agree it’s broad leaf herbicide damage, but if you go to the farmers don’t assume it’s 2-4D damage. Lots of other broad leaf herbicides would probably do that same damage. If it’s a hayfield, they may have sprayed it with picloram.

I completely agree with the comments from c5tiger. I think you have the perfect temperament to go to the farmers and discuss the problem (and how much these trees mean to you). Keep in mind it may not even be the farmers’ who sprayed. Around here many farmers simply hire the spraying done by the local coops/elevator. The guys who work for the elevator are supposed to be well trained applicators, but it’s a complicated dynamic.

They have lots to spray and get in a hurry to get all the spraying done in a short window. This can make them sloppy when the winds aren’t favorable. If they don’t get all their spraying done timely, farmers are unhappy (after all they are paying good money for the custom spray services). The applicators should leave buffers, but farmers sometimes farm right up next to the fence, so the applicators spray the whole field. For row crops, if the elevator folks miss some spray or don’t do a good job, some weeds will grow up in the field. Then come harvest, there is more weed seed or trash in the grain. The elevator docks farmer’s if it’s too much. But if the farmer hired the same elevator to do the spraying, then the farmer will point out to the elevator that they were the ones who did the spraying, so it’s their fault. Then the elevator eats the cost of the extra weed seed in the grain. You can see where the incentive of the elevator lies.

I’m a licensed applicator and have to worry about drift myself, but I’m a bit outraged at the damage done to your trees. To be sure, I’ve read sometimes neighbors over-react when they even smell pesticide from someone spraying next door, or call the police, etc. In truth, whether spraying a lawn or a field, it is not possible to have absolute zero drift. Particle dynamics means that some amount of pesticide (however small) will leave the targeted site even on the very best day with buffer strips, etc. However, damaging or killing your fruit trees is way over the top.

If the applicators spraying the fields next to you are custom applicators (from the elevator or someone else). A nicely worded sign may help. Don’t mention 2-4D on the sign, since the applicators may not be using 2-4D, just stick with the general terminology that your fruit trees are sensitive to herbicide drift.

If you just talk to the farmers and they hire their spraying done, your message may not get to the person actually doing the spraying.

This issue will not only affect your fruit trees, but also your fruiting plants and vegetables in your garden. Tomatoes are like 10X more sensitive to most herbicides than fruit trees. Peaches are fairly tolerant of herbicides, but they too can suffer damage.

It sounds to me like it’s the hayfield where the broad leafed plants were killed which is probably where the drift occurred. You might make a mental note if it is in the direction of the prevailing winds. That may narrow it down to who is the most important person to talk to, and where to best place a sign. They may not spray the field every year. In fact I wouldn’t expect them to, for a hay field. Spraying is expensive and isn’t generally necessary every year for a hay field anyway. Once the weeds come under control, proper cutting of the hay keeps them fairly clean of weeds. Still the farmer needs to be aware of what happened. If he’s a decent guy he will sincerely apologize for what happened, offer to pay for the damaged trees, and take steps to ensure this doesn’t happen again.

Saying this, I understand your situation where the adjoining land owner is your boss. At a minimum you could put up a sign about your garden and fruit trees so the applicator at least knows to be careful.

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It does look like broadleaf spray damage without a doubt. There is a lot of spray used in this area. I also wanted to point out if someone sees a similar looking problem to a much lesser degree in grapes for example check for aphids on the tips of the new growth. Aphids can also cause distorted leaf and stem growth so I would rule that out before suspecting the neighbor of spraying.

Here is a picture of some of my trees next to a field that has a cover crop of rye, clover and peas that was just sprayed with roundup in preparation for cotton. These trees are fairly close to the field and have never been damaged, but we also pay close attention in this area.

As always, lots of great points. You know what really kills me about this…with all the challenges and difficulties in growing fruit (weather, insects, animals, pollination, weeds, etc) who could have imagined that my biggest problem would be man made. Its just heart breaking. I’m going to talk to the farmers and put up signs…FOR SURE.

In a lot of the reading I’ve done since you all helped me figure out the problem, I’ve read where people say that trees and plants exposed like mine may never, ever recover and will always be somewhat deformed and unproductive. But I’ve seen others say their trees got hit but next year were normal again. What do you all think? Should I cut all these trees down and start over (about 17 trees are seriously affected!!!) I hope to goodness not, but I also don’t want to spend the next 2 years on trees that have no hope.

Did I mention how catastrophic and heartbreaking this is!!!

BTW Drew…one side of my property already has a perfect row of 40-50 ft tall, thick, white pine trees that are thick and touching and would bet they would have absorbed a lot of the drift. But guess what…the one closest to the offending field has been turning yellow and dropping leaves ever since this happened, and the next closest one is also obviously effected also but not as much. So they may have done their jobs but probably gave their lives in the process!!!

Don’t cut them down. If they live through this I think they will recover and become productive. I’m so sorry this has happened to you.