I wish I could say that I’m surprised at your Mayors behavior. Sadly I was expecting pretty much what you got from him. You really find out what a persons is made of when things are a little rocky. Mayors come and go with elections but hopfully city managers stay on as long as they want to. Best wishes, Bill
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Why? Why are the rootstocks not worth keeping? Do you feel they were damaged as well? I could see them maybe being damaged and like you, I may not want to keep them either.
I do know that 2-4 D acts on the roots also and that even though there is flush growth from the RS that doesn’t mean they are unharmed…I get that.
Just was curious as to what you saw / know or whatever that makes you feel this way.
Appleseed…this is going to sound incredibly stupid on my part (which is par for the course when it comes to me and fruit growing) but until you asked me that question, I hadn’t even considered what I now think you are talking about…using the rootstock and grafting to it.?.? When I said I knew the rootstock wasn’t worth keeping, I just meant that I knew that they wouldn’t be worth keeping AS A TREE. Meaning, I didn’t think it would be worth while to let the rootstock grow into a full tree. I said that because most of what I’ve read tells me that tree varieties used for rootstocks often are poor fruiters. (otherwise they wouldn’t need something grafted to them). But what I suspect you are asking me, and what I embarrassingly hadn’t much thought about, is why I couldn’t keep those rootstocks, cut off the dead top, and graft onto them. Right? Well, I may try that. However, as I thought about your question it occurred to me that I made a mistake in saying the most of those with only rootstock surviving were pear. They are Cherry and apricot (2 each) and just 2 pear. I have an abysmal success rate when it comes to grafting cherry and apricot (a grand total of ZERO have worked!) so I have grave doubts whether I’m up to top working those 4. And if I try and fail then I will have wasted another year that I could have put growth on a new tree. The two pears, however, I think I may try to top work since I have had great results with them. Last but not least, to answer your question, the trees that do have rootstock only alive actually have really healthy, high volume, bright green growth on them. So yea, for a skilled grafter I think are all viable.
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First…nothing I’ve ever heard you say sounded stupid…quite the contrary. Secondly, I mean that because I’m not bashful about telling the truth about anything…even when I probably shouldn’t.
Topworking is indeed what I was thinking, but I was under the impression that you knew the stock had been damaged also and it very well could have been. I have no idea about that, but my suspicion is that they’d be ok, at least on the trees pushing healthy growth, though perhaps that could be misleading, but I doubt it.
As for cherry grafts, your success rate precisely matches mine, though mine have been perhaps high risk grafts from the get-go, still they are no doubt a tougher nut to crack it seems. I’ve never tried apricot as I don’t much care for the fruit and here in the mountains, they’re damn near impossible to fruit successfully.
I think you should give the pears a chance…you are right though, if you fail you will be behind. Thing is, if you succeed, which I think is more likely, you will probably be further ahead…possibly a lot further ahead.
Oh…somebody posted the other day about how the “journey is part of the reward” or something like that. I liked that post because that is precisely how I feel about it. Topworking those trees successfully would mean something to me and it would (again, for me) be more fun, more challenging and a hell of a lot less physical work. I’m not lazy (well I can be at times), but if the opportunity to do something easier, more challenging and rewarding, not to mention “free” presents itself, I’m going to jump all over it.
If failure is what lies at the end, then I just consider that a learning experience and “part of the journey”.
Thanks for the nice reply. I very much agree that the rootstocks are probably ok (as I said, they are bright green and busy and putting out growth they never did before) which is why I said I felt silly for not really having thought about using them as rootstock and grafting to them. What makes that even more silly is that I actually had 2 extremely successful topworking projects this sping (an apple and a pear) so who knows why I hadn’t thought about topworking these! But they are only about 1.5-2 inches diameter and the trees I top worked were like 10 inches or more. SO it didn’t click in my brain…so thanks very much for the question and suggestion. You are right…it would probably save a lot of time over planting new trees! And btw…I have no earthly reason trying to grow apricots either. Best I can tell, I’ll be lucky if I get a crop every 5 years or so…but as I often say…I’ve got the time and space and it doesn’t cost much to try them even if I only get a surprise once in a great while. I still enjoy the trees and it doesn’t prevent me from growing other, more likely to succeed fruits. I’ve had people almost get mad at me for trying things like apricots and sweet cherries here, but as long as I know its highly unlikely to succeed and I still want to try, I should be able to. That being said, one of the few good things to come out of this fiasco is that I’m going to replace my dead apricots (Blenheim and Moorpark) with some of the later blooming varieties I should have planted to begin with. Its still going to be a highly unlikely to succeed fruit for me, but maybe it will slightly increase my chances. Thanks again for the good advice…I’m going to use it.
Citation rootstock fits that description.
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well, it took almost 3 months, but today I finally got another visit from the State of TN Dept of Agriculture’s Pesticide and Herbicide Investigation division with the “preliminary” results of their investigation. No big surprise, but all the samples that they took and sent to the lab showed that it was 2, 4-D herbicide and that it was in highest concentration on the neighbor I suspected (who is the Mayor) and on my property with lower concentrations on all surrounding properties. THe conclusion is that it was him that did it (duh). Before she came here she went to see one of his partners (there are 3 brothers that are equal partners in their farming operations) and served them with a notice of violation. They have to attend an administrative hearing in Nashville (about an hour away) in a couple weeks and will find out what the fine is. She said the minimum fine is $1,000 and the max is $10,000 and it will depend on many things, but sounds like it will be $1,000 since they had good records and its their first REPORTED offense. The guy who sprayed (which is the son of one of the partners) will also be required to take a 16 course on proper spraying techniques.
As I’ve said here, my only contact with the offending farmers (the 3 brothers) is through the mayor who has gone to ridiculous lengths to avoid me since it happened but in the only brief encounter I had with him he tried to say all the farmers around me sprayed 2, 4-d so it could have been any of them who got me. I therefore have been waiting for this report and concrete proof before I approach him again. I’m going to give him a list of plants and trees he killed and make note of the fact that out of 72 fruit trees at production stage I got a total of 5 apples out of my entire orchard this year (in other words, it completely destroyed my entire crop this year). I’m going to give him a replacement price for those trees and perhaps a value of the fruit I would have had (though this would be so hard to accurately predict that I’ll probably just let it go) and then see if he steps up or not. I’m pretty sure he wont. If he doesn’t I’ll probably just count is as a lesson learned and let it go, but the whole town already knows about it and I get asked almost daily if he paid me for the damages yet so everyone will know what a sorry guy he/they is/are if he doesn’t pay. That along with the fines and the class and them having to attend a hearing is an outcome I can accept. I have requested a copy of the file and report for my records and information. So there you go.
Thanks for everyone’s interest in this whole ordeal. Its been a sad situation but life goes on.
Kevin
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Alright.
Now, with that report in hand, won’t you have what you need to file a civil suit after the admin hearing if they don’t try to make amends on their own?
. . . and the reason that they had records is probably because your let him know about the investigation before they checked them, eh?
yes, that is exactly what the state has said…that their role is to be the investigative authority and if I want to file suit I can use their findings and testimony as evidence. But as I’ve said…this is a very complicated situation due to the fact that I’m the City Manager and he is the Mayor. I know many of you are going to say that shouldn’t enter into it- and it shouldn’t- but the reality is it has to be something I consider. Immediately creating one vote on City council who wants to fire me means I’m 2 votes away from loosing my job over this, and he has one very close ally on council so I’d really just be 1 vote away. And in my job its just a matter of time before I’d have some kind of disagreement with one more councilmember. And whether that happened or not, it just wouldn’t bode well for my future career if I have a reputation of suing my own city council members. Now I know some of you may point out that if I got fired for that I could sue for that as well, but its just not that simple. TN is a right-to-work state so its perfectly legal to fire someone for ANYTHING (except race, religion, etc). So certainly they could find some reason to fire me if they wanted to. Don’t get me wrong- I do a great job and and I’m in extremely good standing with my Council, but suing the mayor would be very disruptive. Yes, its completely separate from work but in reality it would be an issue. I’m sure he knows this and it is part of why he’ll never do the right thing. Oh well.
Muddy’s second point is INCREDIBLY insightful and I even told the investigator the same thing and she absolutely agreed 100%. Thanks to my dumb a#! they knew 3 days before she showed up that she was coming to investigate them so yes, I am 100% CERTAIN that they did all kinds of things to get ready for that inspection, including creating neat, nice records. BTW…she said its actually not required that farmers keep records on "common usage, unrestricted sprays like round up and 2, 4-D, which kind of surprised me, but that she was surprised they did keep those records. so again…no doubt…they cooked the books for her!!! Live and learn. Next time (or for anyone else) don’t say a word to anyone except the inspectors. I liked the way she explained that…she said “really, we want to treat a situation like this as a crime and the location is a crime scene so any potential targets in the investigation should have no knowledge about the investigation”. Overall, I feel pretty much satisfied with the state’s handling of the whole situation. Not perfect, but not too bad overall.
If he refuses to pay would there be political reprocussions?
I don’t mean this to be a political statement at all, but don’tcha just love the euphemism “right-to-work” when it means the exact opposite? I live in a RTW state, too.
Mayor is a temporary title.
The reason they investigate it like a crime is because misuse of these chemicals is unlawful. Boldly printed on every label. Reckless misuse adversely affects the health and safety of people (especially children) and the environment.
I’m not saying your decisions are wrong. I tend to put future security ahead of revenge, myself. So, I understand.
Yes Phil, there is no doubt that he will lose some popularity if he refuses to pay, but whether it would be enough to unseat him…I don’t know but sort of doubt it. But people who are in City Hall paying bills, etc who walk by my office often ask me if the mayor ever paid me for the damage and when I say no, they always react negatively.
your right, Muddy, should be called “right to be fired” haha. 
Glad you understand that I have bigger issues at stake than some trees and plants and fruit. Again, my professional career should have nothing whatsoever to do with a private tort against me, but the reality is that the two things won’t necessarily remain separate.
Politics can be a b*tch. Doesn’t matter if your right cause you can be made to be wrong. ATB(all the best)
The state’s report sounds like a moral victory for you cityman. And keeping your job sounds like a good priority. You’ve handled this well, I think!
Although, of course, I can dream up scenarios: sue the mayor, but quickly start practicing a new, exotic religion. Show up at work wearing a turban or saffron robes…chant on your breaks…burn incense at the desk…then if they try to fire you, you can say it’s because of your new religion 
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I am glad that you have facts on hand from the DA sil sample test result. From now on, you have turned the table around. Hope this matter will be soon resolved in your satisfaction without too much a struggle. Good luck
Kevin, I too would be very satisfied with the way the state handled everything. To be honest, I’m super-surprised at how effective and thorough they were. That’s the way it should work, but ime rarely does. Sounds like TN has their stuff together. Good on them.
I hope your replacement price includes labor!
Kevin, I just went through this whole thread again and was very curious how things have worked out. An update at your convenience would be sweet.
Thanks, Phil
Well the first time for me. At least as stated you have a moral victory. I don’t know if i would sue or not? Was he up for election this Tuesday? At least hopefully it will not happen again. At this point that would be my biggest concern. Also some of the trees may really jump back next year. The grapes that grew without leaves probably had no sugar and are not representative of the possible taste of future crops. I didn’t think about it till now, but I should have sent you a few fruits from my crop. I only had about 60, but at least you could have a taste. Now that they are all gone, I think about it! Oh well. I sent peaches to Arizona this year and they made it fine in 2 days priority mail. You would get them the next day! I will send some next year, as should all of us if your production is still low.