Do not leave the temperature of the soil and roots out of your plans.
Also keep in mind that for mature fruit trees, the volume of harvest is proportional to the volume of roots.
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Yes sir I will absolutely make sure to mulch heavily, although are you meaning to say that I should keep a tree away from any patio structure to maximize root volume? Thanks.
I doubt mulch will be sufficient for the species you have in mind. You can verify that this winter by using agricultural temperature probes at 1ā, 2ā, 3ā, and 4ā depth.
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Why not grow both in containers placed on the deck spring to fall, under grow/shop lights in your barn/shop in winter, and like Richard said, pick some beautiful, zone-appropriate trees that wonāt keep you up at night? You donāt have to let go of the dream, just modify it a bit more.
@fiddle, I donāt want to sound harsh but the idealism is coming across as naivete and ignorance. Listen to Richard here:
You are trying to zone push, thinking that a fire a couple of feet above the ground and several feet away from the trees, maintained for hours or days at a time at just the right temperature in order to not scorch the trees is going to keep the air on all sides of the trees (including their root systems) warm enough to not experience cold damage.
How much experience do you have with campfires? Have you even laid on your belly and crawled up close to one and seen how all of hot air is moving upwards so rapidly that you can get in much nearer than you could when standing?
It might be time to examine why it is that you absolutely have to grow these two trees and are willing to go to such an extreme to spend thousands of dollars to pursue these two trees.
Forum members keep telling you gently that it wonāt work and you keep questioning their veracity. I donāt think you realize this and Iād suggest that you read back through the thread and see how many times someone has said āyeah, it will work, go for itā and how many times someone has suggested otherwise.
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No you are absolutely correct, your assumptions about my naivety are not understated. I am 18 years old just graduated high school this May, I donāt have real much practical experience at all comparitively with trees or the permaculture lifestyle. But I have a hoop dream. I purchased many trees this month that are due to ship in March, but the idea of overcoming zones captivates me along with the challenge and very uncertain likelihood as shown in this thread, as you are right to point out there hasnāt been a single person to give a green light or stick out a thumbs up. But if I try and I fail whatās the worst outcome? I lose say $60 on the trees and some on the mulch and other warming tactics? Even though itās proven by yāall that the odds arenāt in my favor nothing treacherous can come out of giving it a shot for some remarkably high value fruit, plus a few seperate sources such as the nurseries, (I understand they have an incentive to sell) lended credibility to the ideas, and even though I reflected onto the guavas low yield and swapped it for a cold hardy Mandarin, Iām still willing to try for trees that surely wouldnāt grow if I were to just stick them in the ground. If all else, I have plenty of other fruits that I would allocate my time to.
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Zone 7 NE Oklahoma
Here are all the trees listed, by far the two trees would be the most trouble some and time consuming. They will certainly present the biggest challenge, but for their unique fruit and value, itās something Iām willing to tackle head on.
Having redundancies and backup plans are really important. There are a lot of opportunities for failure points in what youāre suggesting with the fireplace, especially temperature control to the trees. Will you be there every hour of the day and night through every cold snap for years to ensure proper temps?
In your zone you could have in ground fig trees that will require less protection than youāre envisioning some years (no fireplace necessary), and unless itās extremely brutal will come back from quite a bit of dieback. Or, there are a lot of beautiful, unique trees that donāt require protection. You can probably do non-astringent persimmons, maybe a little protection when theyāre very young. Citrus trees take to pots readily and can be wheeled inside during cold weather; they look really lovely outside a home when pruned well and double as ambiance in winter. Thereās nothing like the smell of blooming citrus inside when itās brown and cold outside.
Edited to add - saw your other thread and that you did get some persimmons. I think youāll be very happy with those.
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7b you can do a ton of different plants, Iām a 7a gardener. I have apples, tons of cane fruit (I think 9 plants if im counting right), mulberry, paw paw, persimmon, sweet cherry, service berry, figs and iām adding an asian pear and peach.
plus walnut.
Hell yeah. Iām tryna get like you hopefully in the near future God willing.
If you want a fast growing hardy fruit tree, your best option is mulberry. It will grow several feet in a season. You can also grow jujube or persimmon or service berry or cornelian cherry as well (for another not normal fruit). Is there a particular reason you selected olive and pineapple guava? Would a mulberry and jujube work for you instead? Those are both āspray free treesā too
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Thatās the spirit!
Iāve been growing fruit trees that could get killed by cold weather (Iāve already had 34 die by my count), I just want you to understand that your suggested ways to achieve your goal can be very costly (in multiple ways) and likely wonāt accomplish the goal of keeping them alive through the cold.
If thatās the case then, what have you done thatās actually worked out in your favor for doing so. Especially so many times surely you have some recommended actions.
Have you tried using extended shale? Iāve recently seen that it preserves warmth underground.
When my trees die I get to pick something else that will tolerate the weather better. Iāve got trees that I purchased that Iām not even going to bother planting in the ground since they have already demonstrated that they wonāt do well in this climate.
Iām sure that there are lots of options for a thermal battery but I wouldnāt consider any of them as being viable for my situation. If a tree canāt hack it here Iām not going to baby it in the hopes of it surviving long enough to get fruit.
I think that those two trees in particular (Feijoa and olive) when they get cold, but not too cold, die back to the root ball. Then all the plant above ground dies and a new plant grows up from the roots. So that could be problematic for you. What I mean is you may find that they grow back as a small bush every year never to be tree like.
My two attempts at arborquena olive in 8b found that more than 2 short snow events killed all the top growth. The olive came back from the roots and grew more like a blueberry bush than a tree. Both attempts proved fatal when we had two 14 deg f cold snaps 6 years apart. Both times my olives died completely. I did not move it to my green house believing it was more cold hardy.
I actually grow several feijoa as well. The roots can take some cold. They have done well for 6 years. But itās pretty much ditto. If itās much colder than a frost the tree completely defoliates and grows a new top. Zone pushing both of these will favor the short bush type of growth and less the upright tree. Definetly would not count on either one staying evergreen in a zone push scenario. It is doable to keep them alive, but I would expert the top growth to get nuked every year.
I love the suggestion of mulberry and persimmon. Both of those would grow into the trees in your first vision with a lot less heart break.
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Yes I considered the fact that it would likely be a smaller bush but I came to the conclusion that I would have to prune said trees into bushes anyways in efforts to protect them easier and keep warmth towards the bottom not stretched out real tall.
I do have a dwarf mulberry, and 3 Persimmons on the way including many others, so surely there will be no heartbreak, although Iāve considered changing the guava for a owari mandarin. (I understand the olive is the less hardy of the pair but I found the guava to be not worth the trouble for the small yield.)
What do you think though is the actual fruit of the guava worth the hassle in your opinion?