Mystery thorny berry vines - ID?

There are two types of large, slightly out of control thorny berry bushes down in an abandoned bed on my property. I am guessing raspberry and blackberry? Can anyone confirm and tell me which is which?

The second is softer and more red:

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blackberry mixed with wineberry.

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Blackberry and wineberry, wineberry has reddish spiny canes.


Pic 1 and 2… wild blackberry floricanes.
Pic 3… wild blackberry primocane… next year it will become a floricanes.

Pic 4… I would guess wild raspberry (we don’t have those here)

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i just put in a wineberry and it looks just like that 4th pic. long bristles of red spiny canes. more so than regular red raspberries.

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Aghhhhh!!! Neither one of those sound like good things to have in that bed!! Thank you for the IDs.

Wineberry is fine in shady spots where little else will grow. Berries are delicious! But in a sunny spot there’s better stuff to grow. I have a bunch of volunteers on the shady property line behind my beehives. Birds usually get them first, though.

The blackberry is probably one of the lousy invasive types that cover this area. No fruit worth eating.

I imagine the blackberry (first 3 pictures) is going to do OK if you can tolerate the thorns.
The 4th my be wineberry, I am less certain on it. But if so, it prefers shade to full sun.

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I think we have the same vines through the Appalachian range.

First type is wild blackberries. Hard to harvest for me. Probably the deer picking all the best and ripe ones).

Second type is wineberries. But I didn’t see any fruits in your wineberries. These are way better tasting than wild blackberries.

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