Persimmons do not root from scions, neither do they airlayer with ease. The trees sold by One Green World are grafted. I do not know if Jung is selling grafted trees or seedlings.
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Both grew into full sized trees. No noticeable graft union.
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I got Meader from Jungs several years back. Unfortunately, it died last winter due to terrible southwest injury right above the graft. I had the graft protected with bark, but not painted white. I may have removed/applied the bark to early/late. I am still figuring out best practice/timing for here; I will see if some things I tried this winter on other persimmon grafts worked.The rootstock sent up some shoots this summer. I enjoyed the flavor of the fruit. It fruited in a pot one season. Very fruity, classic good american persimmon flavor. Not very large. But, it always had a tad of astringency no matter how long I let it blet. Guessing by the look of the graft, it was a bud or side cleft grafted about 3" up, and done about a year, (maybe even 2), before I ordered it.
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I was watching the Youtube you posted trying to figure out what extra varieties i want to get from Cliff this year. I love my 100-46 Lehman’s Delight, and kinda like my Prok (latter might not be in great location). Although the Lehman’s Delight is more prone to the wrinkling/blackening of the skin and black specs inside (although not in all the fruit).
Alot of the persimmons in that Youtube video posted look crystal-clear (like no blackening or wrinkling on the outside, bright orange on outside as well, and a very clear orange flesh on the inside). WS-810 was one of worst.
Would this be a good summary of the video. Maybe let me know any other ‘pretty’ american persimmon to add to this list (or ugly ones):
pretty fruit: Claypool (H-120), Celebrity (U20A), Prok, H63A, J59
not-as-pretty fruit (black specs/skin): Barbara’s Blush (WS-810), Elmo A-118, SuperSweet,
sometimes pretty, sometimes not fruit: Lehman’s Delight (100-46)
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@armyofda12mnkeys … my Sistsrs wild american “Rich Tooie” favors somewhat WS8-10/Barbara’s Blush.
It ripens fruit slowly for near two months starting in early Sept.
Early on they look like this.
And then later on the skin will darken some and the pulp inside darkens some too.
This happens mostly to the fruit on the sunny (south/west) side of the tree.
The pics i have seen of Barbara’s Blush looked similar to the later ripening Rich Tooie.
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I got about 7 American Persimmon seedlings from Florida. Are they dioecious? I have high hopes for them.
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ish. they could be either or both, and could switch at any time. those would presumably be tetraploids, probably timber form with small fruit Id guess. Such is their reputation, and the few Ive seen have lived up to it. Can you grow kakis there? If so, maybe those are rootstock? They sucker, so youll not lose their genetics by grafting onto them, something Ive reminded myself of when debating whether to let some of my seedlings grow out on their own or graft them to known good varieties.
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There’s a guy in another town that specializes in growing low-chill varieties of chill fruit. He grows Kaki, so it definitely seems like an option. Are they easy to graft? I got myself a grafting tool from amazon and I’m itchin’ to put it to good use… all I’d need is to wait for the seedlings to reach the right size, then figure out where to get scions.
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Theyre not the easiest, but theyre not that hard either. I have one of those Omega grafters someone gave me. Its fun to use and can work pretty well under the right circumstances but a knife is a lot more failsafe and versatile for the most part. Heres my preferred technique for persimmons. Lots of other styles too on this thread: 2023 Persimmon Grafting - #218 by hobilus
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@Caesar
There’s at least one individual in FL growing American Persimmon seedlings and selling them online as the Japanese Persimmon cultivar Fuyu.
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I’d research incompatibility between kaki and southern DV.
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maybe interstems are in order?
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The problem with american persimmons is they are still in the infancy stage of becoming domesticated.
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We are working on the hybrids though…
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Very true but interspecific hybrids still have a ways to go also. Some are up to 4 generations now.
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Yes! Compared to kaki genetics there is a lot of catching up to do.
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As we try to improve the species, what attributes are we shooting for? I’m assuming we’re focusing on the 90-chromosome subspecies. I’d suggest:
- Cold hardiness. This exists generally but must be preserved or enhanced.
- Early loss of astringency. This exists in some varieties.
- Great flavor. This can be subjective but some version of great flavor exists in some varieties.
- Early ripening. This trait varies, and it matters more to short-season growers, But it exists in some varieties.
- Unblemished fruit, especially around the calyx. This varies widely.
- Large fruit. This is desirable, other things equal, but most consumers would prioritize taste.
- Fruit hangs through ripeness. This trait may be controversial but (IME) kaki and hybrid fruit stay attached – At harvest, the stems must be cut. In contrast, most DV fruit drops. The stem and calyx break free and the fruit drops to the ground, leaving a hole where the stem used to attach. IMO, it’s way better for the fruit to hang. It seems worth the minor inconvenience of cutting the stem to have pristine, fully ripe and fully non-astringent fruit available on the tree.
I’m admittedly relatively inexperienced in this area, so I offer these comments just to start a conversation. I’d be happy to hear other suggestions. Maybe we should discuss the objectives and perhaps prioritize them.
It might also be useful for us to identify varieties that meet these criteria, more or less. FWIW, in my limited experience the variety that best meets these objectives is H63A. The fruit is only average in size, ripening is not super early but it is early enough, the loss of astringency seems reliable. Taste is very good, it hangs on the tree, and of course it is cold hardy.
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Agreed. Claypool or Lehman, I can’t remember which, said that size was not the path forward. And they had many years of experience to inform that position.
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I think non-astringent tiny tasty persimmons would sell like blueberries or strawberries in season at a grocery store.
Easy to plop one in your mouth full of flavor, ready to eat crunchy or soft depending on preference…
Lots of potential here. Plus for when they are ripe in the fall*, you’re already expecting orange as a seasonal color, so there is some marketing synergy there.
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@disc4tw
There is a persimmon species in Africa that fits that description, although not non-astringent. Roger Meyer grew a few at his ranch in Valley Center, CA.
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