Need walnut and kiwi help in SW Arkansas / NE Texas

General Fruit Growing
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Hi There!

For context, we live in Bowie county, TX (climate wise it’s easier to think of it as SW Arkansas vs typical east Texas) where we have 66 acres with 3 orchards, vineyard and a large garden.

The orchards are only 3-4 years old at this point and most of the varieties (120 trees roughly) once dialed in with some help to the soil (the land was previously just pine forest until cleared and prepped in the limited orchad areas). We currently have healthy varieties of a large variety of fruits and nuts (apples, sweet cherry, nectarines, peach, fig, pomegranate, apricot, plum, pear, plumcot, jujube, pawpaw, persimmon, blackberry, blueberry, raspberry, 4 types of pecan, almond, chandler walnuts, dunsten chestnut and roughly 200’ of a mix of muscadine and table grapes) - I describe that to paint a picture of what the property has been able to support thus far.

The main issue I have been fighting recently is with my chestnuts. I have 9 Chandler Walnuts (sourced from Dave Wilson via a local supplier) which have gotten off to a healthy start and are establishing nicely. My issue is with the pollinator as I was told that I need either a Franquette or Cisco walnut as a pollinator. I have had two Franquette walnuts and both of them died right at the start of fall after a fairly rough summer. I have had zero luck sourcing a cisco.

Now, I have three questions I guess regarding the walnuts:

  1. The Chandlers are described as self fertile but I have never had decent luck with fruit yields from trees (even when owning 3-4 in close proximity) that are self fertile and don’t have a different cultivar pollinator. Is just having Chandlers without a pollinator a viable strategy for getting decent yields? I think the commercial orchards always have separate pollinators.
  2. Does anyone know where I can source Franquette on a good resilient root stock? I am wondering if previously the root stocks I got were not suitable for my area.
  3. Does anyone know where I can source a Cisco?

Bonus question #1: I am wanting to add one more thing to my main fruit orchard: Kiwi. I know in my area hardy kiwi was about the only viable option but I was told that ASU had a new variety of Kiwi that was a golden kiwi called “Golden Dragon” that supposedly does very well in similar climates which I have been trying to source - does anyone know where this can be found or even any info on it? My supplier has described being on a list for it but I can’t even find any info on it.

Bonus question #2: What do people have luck with in terms of keeping deer out of orchards with young trees? I had a buck knock over one of my young pecans and break it during rubbing. I then added some cut up “irish spring” soap to the orchard as I heard that works but honestly I have no idea if it does and it may just be a wives tale.

Thanks in advance for the help - I am at my wits end about this Walnut pollinator issue and I don’t want to just give up as I have a full orchard now with Chandlers :confused:

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Your orchards sound awesome.

I am no expert, but I am also trying to grow walnuts (Juglans regia) in the South, and it can be challenging.

I have heard that they are particularly susceptible to sunscald / heat damage. I have not had that particular issue, but my walnuts have like to leaf out too early and tend to get injured by late frosts, but not fatally.

I lost a newly-planted Franquette this year under the same circumstances you describe (rough start, rough summer, and died at the start of fall). Mine was on Juglans regia roots. I intend to chalk it up to the game and try again – Franquette makes a great nut, and I think conditions were just rougher this year and it might be fine if it could get established.

The literature indicates that you will get much better yields with a pollenizer.

For rootstock, especially in the South, I think regular old black walnut (Juglans nigra) is generally considered to be one of the hardiest, and it is native to the area. I don’t use it because I have much less space than you do and am worried about juglone poisoning of the soil (not an issue for you if you already have a dedicated area for walnuts / pecans). There are also hybrid rootstocks, like ‘Paradox,’ that are used commercially and tuned for different types of disease resistance. If a specific pathogen (e.gl., Phytophthora, root nematodes, etc.) killed your Franquette and you can identify the pathogen, there is probably a specific hybrid rootstock that you can get to overcome the challenge.

My experience is that most retail walnuts are grafted to black walnut (nigra) rootstock unless otherwise specified. As for getting your hands on one, I think you might need to check with your local supplier – interstate shipping of Juglans species is regulated, and I think Texas might be on the no-no list.

Another option might be to plant a Carpathian walnut seedling or two as a pollenizer (the route I went). While a seedling might or might not prove to be as ideal a pollenizer as Franquette, it is still likely to provide a significant benefit over no pollenizer at all. Plus, seedlings are generally healthier and more vigorous than grafted trees (though you may be waiting a while before it starts producing catkins).

I don’t think the Irish Spring trick would work on my deer in Georgia. I’ve had no choice but to individually fence my trees to protect them from destruction, at least until they size up and develop adult bark. I had a young live oak that I planted as a specimen tree from which I removed the fence once it was about 14 feet tall, and the hungry deer chewed most of the bark off of it in a night. I don’t think oak bark is particularly tasty, so I’m sure they’d have massacred my fruit and nut trees if they could get a crack at them.

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Franquette will die every time, so don’t bother. Your climate is too hot and dry. If you can find “Lake” or “Allegheny” both are hardy and will pollinate your Chandler trees. If possible, get one of each. If you can get Paradox rootstocks, you will have better results given you are grafting Persian walnuts. Caution that Chandler tends to break buds early and can lose all fruiting buds in a late spring frost. If you are interested in black walnuts, Thomas, Neel #1, and Farrington will grow and produce in your climate.

You can find a few threads here about golden kiwi from Auburn which were available a few years ago. I’m unsure if they will be available this spring, but if they are, consider getting a few. Dig out the threads and read up on them. I have about 30 golden kiwi seedlings which I plan to set out this spring and graft to named varieties including the Auburn selections.

Deer are almost impossible to keep out of an orchard. A large - and very loud - dog helps quite a bit, especially if he happens to love chasing deer.

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Thanks for the info. Will carpathian walnuts even work as a pollinator for Chandler? I can’t find any reference of that - can you share your source?

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Thanks for the info on the pollinators - few questions though? I found a few references to the Lake walnut but it seems discontinued everywhere. Do you know where they can be sourced now days? Also, in terms of the Allegheny, I could only find references to Chinquapin. Lastly, why do you say those would pollinate Chandler? I can’t find a reference for that.

Thanks for the heads up on the golden dragon. I am really looking forward to setting a few up.

On the dogs, yeah I have 3 great danes which I think do a good job of keeping deer out of the closer orchard but they don’t run loose so I may need to do some kind of fencing, dunno. On the other hand, the natural woods (we didn’t clear cut 90% of the property) have a ton of natural forage so I wonder how much that will help. Half of me planting the Dunstan Chestnuts was as a food source for the deer.

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Look for Bedco #1 instead of Allegheny. Nolin Nursery carried it several years ago before John Brittain passed away.

Here is an archived link:

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Well, when you plant a seedling (as opposed to a grafted variety), you are gambling because you don’t know for sure when the bloom time will be. As the tree gets bigger and makes more catkins, I would think you would be likely to get some overlap. The most sure approach would be to use a grafted variety that is paired with Chandler.

My understanding from nursery descriptions is that Chandler blooms late, but if @Fusion_power says otherwise, I’d trust him as a source over anything I say.

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I didn’t say it blooms early. It breaks buds early compared with just about any walnut adapted to the NE Texas climate.

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I talked to my local supplier (Bob Wells / Sorelle Nursery) and they had the following walnut varieties:

Solano, Livermore Red and Tulare

Do you think any of those would suffice as pollinators? As mentioned, I had a hard time finding any example of Lake walnut for sale and still trying to source the other mentioned.

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Doing some additional digging and I found this chart on page 6 of a ucanr.edu page:

walnut_chart
walnut_chart935×652 71.2 KB

It looks like Hartley and Tulare have some degree of overlap that may be workable but I don’t know if you folks think that would work in our case.

You mentioned before that “Your climate is too hot and dry” but the reality is while our summers can get very hot, we are not in the stereotypical part of Texas people thing of. I can be in legit swamp land in 40 minutes and we get on average 45"+ rain annually. It really is more appropriate to think of our climate as far SW Arkansas.

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Chandler is protandrous so you need a protogynous pollinator. Franquette is also protandrous so it is left with no paired pollinator at the end of its bloom. Any way you slice or dice it, a better paired pollinator would be desirable.

A similar problem exists with Forkert pecan which is usually planted with 2 other varieties to match pollination requirements. You can pollinate Chandler with Cisco but that will leave Cisco with no pollinator for the end of the season making a third variety necessary to cover all flowers… or you could look for a late protogynous variety such as Allegheny. It was short shrift finding a good single variety to pollinate Forkert until I paired it with Adams #5 which gives complete overlap.

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I agree largely but you can’t source Allegheny (or Bedco #1) or Cisco and Franquette is unable to survive in SW Arkansas per your pervious comment.

Looking at the chart though, it appears like Hartley and Tulare despite being protandrous have a pollen release that overlaps even if not fully - why would that not be effective for pollination purposes during that overlap?

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Hartley and Tulare cover the first half of Chandler’s female flower bloom leaving the last half hanging in the wind. A variety is needed that fully overlaps the entire female bloom for Chandler. A protogynous variety is preferred as that means both varieties pollinate each other, not just any protogynous variety, a variety that fully overlaps with Chandler. Other options include a very late blooming protandrous variety that would not have a paired pollinator. I am not aware of such an overlapping late protandrous variety other than Franquette.

I have Bedco#1 but do not recommend it as the tree has not been vigorous in my climate near Rainsville Alabama. I had Allegheny but lost it 20 years ago in a drought.

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A variety is needed that fully overlaps the entire female bloom for Chandler

I agree and I am not trying to be argumentative in the least but unless I am missing something what your suggesting does not exist so I am trying to think of options at this point. Even if Hartley and Tulare don’t fully overlap, wouldn’t I still get some degree of pollination for the Chandlers? I would think that would ultimately be better than no pollination but maybe there is a piece of this puzzle or what your saying that I am being obtuse and not getting.

For the record, I don’t really care about the pollinator (hartley / tulare) getting pollinated as an overlap from the Chandlers as I only need it to pollinate the Chandlers which is basically the entire orchard.

Other options include a very late blooming protandrous variety that would not have a paired pollinator. I am not aware of such an overlapping late protandrous variety other than Franquette.

Neither am I which is why I am brainstorming other options here otherwise what is the suggestion being presented? To rip out all the Chandlers and start over?

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Lol, NO! Do more delving and figure out something that works. I saw enough late protogynous trees in Romania to make your head hurt. Somewhere and somehow, you will find a viable pollinator, If nothing else, put in a Hartley as a stopgap and keep looking for something compatible.

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It works, but not for long. I used it years ago, but have switched to 1-2 foot wide fence rings around each tree. Started as 3-4 foot rings when the tree was small and shrunk them after they got out of deer range. So far it has worked perfect. Before that I lost trees every year to rubs.

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Yeah, I guess I may have to just bit the bullet. Was hoping to avoid having to do that 120 times heh

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Well, I think one plan that may work is to add a Livermore Red and Tulare. From talking to my supplier and referencing that chart I shared, Tulare was described as having some overlap (even if not complete) in pollen shed and the Livermore Red supposedly has a much later pollen shed similar to cisco.

In theory, the Tulare will shed pollen in the early part of the Chandler bloom (you didn’t correct me when I asserted this before so I assume it’s true) and if the Livermore Red overlap later then that combination should maybe provide decent cross pollination.

I found interesting comments in this HortSci article (why can’t we provide links?): Google “hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/39/7/article-p1772”

Specifically:
quote

To my uneducated interpretation it’s saying that since the pollen shed usually matches the bloom and the bloom is near Chandler’s bloom then in theory the pollen shed should overlap the Chandler bloom well. If variety of cross pollinator doesn’t matter then Red Livermore may be a pretty good pollinator for Chandler.

Thoughts?

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Concur re Livermore. It appears to be protandrous with overlap which means is pollinates its own blooms in the process pollinating any compatible trees nearby. Suggest looking further and seeing if you can find any others with potential as pollinators.

If you have 120 Chandler trees, you need at least 8 pollinators.

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Thankfully I don’t have 120 Chandlers - my orchards are mixed mainly for personal use with 2-3 varieties of just about everything I can grow (horticulture version of Noahs ark) that I have an interest in eating / sharing / selling to farmers market vendors. I only have 10 Chandlers in an outer nut orchard with some Dunstan Chestnuts. So I originally planned on a single franquette as a pollinator but I am leaning toward throwing in a Livermore with a Tulare off to the side to lend a hand after this whole conversation.

Thanks for the help!