I have space for a peach tree, and I don’t mind sinking some money into getting a good variety. My land has never grown stone fruit, so it’s a clean sheet with no established disease populations. I’ll grow it organic, no spray, all natural.
You tell me what variety to get. Tell me what soil amendments to use, how to fertilize it, prune it, etc. Instruct me on how to take care of it without using sprays.
If the tree makes it to five years old and is still healthy and producing edible, acceptable quality fruit, you’ll have proved your point.
To help you out: I have sandy loam, verging on alluvial soil of moderate fertility and decent but not amazing drainage. Low organic matter because of my climate and the previous owner just having a grass lawn and almost no trees. The pH is mildly acidic, no major nutrient deficiencies or surplus. I have mostly full sun, but a few spots of part shade. My climate is humid subtropical, zone 8a creeping towards 8b.
I’ll buy whatever tree you suggest, up to about $100, and pay for whichever amendments and such you instruct. I’ll keep a log of instructions, updates, pictures, etc on a dedicated thread on this site. You just have to provide me the information that’ll keep my tree healthy and productive sans spray.
Since i was one of the first commenters on here saying that no spray peaches would be almost impossible, and having read every comment on this post, i feel like i need to step in and clarify my statement.
Some folks have said that they can infact grow peaches spray free. Others have said no way is it possible.
@alan is a professional orchard manager, who is tasked with providing his paying clients with the best possible chance of producing a crop that is ready for market. That means unblemished fruits of good or better quality that will sell at market. He has been an advocate in this thread stating that he could not do no spray due to the high likelihood that there would be little to no fruit that was blemish free.
I have a small orchard that i am the sole care taker of. Its roughtly 250 trees, mainly apple, but also some peaches. I sell my fruit at roadside stand and the occasional market. I cannot get fruit to market without some type of chemical spray. Im not advocating throwing everything and the kitchen sink at minor issues, but i also am not going to bury my head in the sand when i need to take care of a problem. Typical sprays for me are immunox, daconil, sevin, copper, captan. Rarely do i need to venture past those, but when i do, its typically dawn dish soap mixed with water for aphids. Thats about it, other than the occasional glyphosate for weed control in trellis systems.
I could go no spray and have fruit for myself and my family. I dont mind the occasional worm, bug or blemish. However in my local environment, i would have little to nothing for sale to the general market. That would be a problem. Long term, i would get nothing but headaches and no fruit to sell if i didnt control rot and bugs without certain chemical applications.
Spray or dont spray, organic or synthetic, it doesnt matter. Each person has to do what they feel is morally and ethically correct for their situation.
I read the food plot forums too… the hunters that plant trees in places to attract deer, pigs, bears and varmints for them to hunt. Peaches are a great lure. Plus a hunter can double dip and eat those peaches.
Contender.
Pruning and amending and all that- lets take this to the max. Watch Stephan Sobkowiak’s pruning techniques as well as his methods of planting bare root trees. Most controversial of all the ‘experts’. I think one of the old leaders called him a ‘whack job’.
Purchase location- Stark Bros. Its the most common and talked about and they offer a 1 year guarantee…so at least i have that to my challenge benefit.
The topic of the discussion was ‘organic’ sprays. I am open minded to that. I dont think that spraying worm casting tea crosses the line. Stephan has good videos on that also. An excellent challenge would be one tree zero spray and the other worm casting tea or spraying milk/buttermilk/whey (Stephan has videos on this also). That would be super interesting.
Soil amendments? Go for the moon and apply arborist wood chips. Those cause nitrogen robbing and nitrogen depletion on any good discussion.
Final thoughts- to do the challenge in full you must not detract birds or predators or anything that preys on insects, larvae as forage for their young. You must leave habitat for those things to live their lives freely and do the things that they evolved to do. So in essence you do not do the jobs of any predator as all sprays are designed to do. Instead you encourage natural predators.
I will also send you free of charge for the experiment one free Iowa White peach tree. Grown from seed.
Some folks may or may not respect Oikos but here is what he has to say
" I think this is the future of the peach if it can be grown without toxic chemicals as well as a means to increase the longevity of a peach orchard, bring in unique flavors and make it possible to grow organically. "
Its been more like Seattle in April here, now it feels more like Atlanta. I dont see any evidence of brownrot on my peaches, but then I only had about 3 blossoms on them out of 10 trees. One tree- my most neglected by far- was overrun with peach leaf curl. Thats new. I dont see it spreading. I’ve always had a bit on most trees, but its never been concerning
sounds like my kinda guy
most definitely take you up on that offer
Far from the death of the forum @alan , this kind of discussion makes this an engaging place to be. I, for one appreciate being part of this community of “characters”, warts and all.
Since I know from previous contentious threads that humor, particularly of a Python sort is apt to elicit a chuckle, Ill end by saying that even if this tree totally succumbs to brown rot, it will be “Just a flesh wound”
I would wear that T-shirt. Thank you for being honest as a ‘for profit’ grower. Totally understand and respect everything that you as a farmer do to provide food and earn a living on land that grows edible things. I would rather eat your peaches than from a corporate farm or imported.
My way of growing things is that if it gets diseases or doesnt do well here i just remove it… if it takes me growing 20 cultivars of pears to get 2 that do well… i will be happy to just have 2 that do well. Personally i dont want to fight my orchard…and i dont want it to fight me. My orchards are my happy place… my peace.
I mentioned animal precautions in a previous statement. I am a dog lover and my dogs absolutely love being with me as i walk thru my orchards and rows… they roll and play and i have saw them napping under trees on many days. They eat mice and voles and moles… they are predators. They have killed several rabbits and squirrels and chipmunks… and 2 fawns. They eat them… So i personally have to be aware of food chains. I am responsible for them… just as much as they are the apex predators of my personal land. They are responsible for hunting and killing anything that invades their space… I also have creeks and a well. I have to be aware of what i do to my land that affects that. I have a new pond started. I plan on adding more. I am responsible for what i do that will drift or leach or whatever the term is that will make my water anything less than pristine.
I do have challenges that i have to accept… but i do not quest the perfect fruit nor do i sell them. I only answer moral and ethical questions for my particular desire to grow fruit.
@krismoriah … same here on not wanting to have to fight or force things to grow well, produce good fruit.
I want things that grow like weeds and fruit well with no sprays. Yes that will limit what i can grow… i no longer have peaches (and I LOVE Peaches)… but they just no longer work for me.
The last year I had peaches. I disposed of several hundred BR and OFM infested fruits … so frustrating.
The things i would have to do and spray to get good peaches… would be a fight for me… and i am just not willing to go there.
Persimmons, figs, mulberry, raspberry, blueberry, logans, pears, pawpaw, select apples, etc… i can do and have peace with my orchard.
I save up my unused buttermilk and store it in the freezer and plan on using it if i see any issues. So far i see no issues yet. I personally think that its worth trying instead of giving up or using chemical inputs.
Maybe one of our challengers will find this useful?
I’ll order a 3-4 ft Contender Peach Tree from Stark Bro’s. I’ll do so once things start cooling down over here (it’s in the 90s every day right now, bad time for planting trees). I will go ahead and apply a layer of cardboard and a thick layer of aged wood chips to the spot I will be planting in to start suppressing the weeds (an established stand of bahia is no joking matter). There will be a dedicated thread, I’ll call it “No Spray Peaches in Eastern NC, an Experiment” or something to that effect. I will post regular updates, including photos, notes, and any cultural and fertilization activity. If I can find a reasonable source for worm castings, sure, I’ll make the tea and spray it when you say I should, failing that, compost tea, or most any other organic methods you recommend so long as they are not excessively expensive or time-consuming. I can also underplant with companion plants and grow beneficial nearby. I will not net or otherwise discourage insects, birds, or other wildlife.
The trees will be planted in front of my mixed flower, berry, herb, and vegetable garden, which should add a lot of the purported benefits you mention. I do not use pesticides in my garden, so there won’t be any drift affecting the experiment.
Trees will go cattycorner to the arch trellis, opposite the brambles you see there, directly in front of the orange tithonias.
If I plant this fall, then I’ll call this year 0, and 2024 will be year 1. The challenge is for me to still have healthy, productive trees in year 5, so 2028.
Yes please! Having more than one tree will make a big difference in terms of data richness, especially if it is a goodly old variety.
@krismoriah, I have used milk many a times for spraying down cannabis. My problem outdoors is the mammals enjoy the milk spray very much. Maybe on a big old tree it would not be a problem, but be careful on seedlings or annual veggies or smaller berries. Specifically rats. They love day old milked sprayed foliage. It is like pizza to them. Full defoliation to my horror and disbelief.
It has been the organic cannabis gardeners favorite weapon for a decade, milk. Unfortunately I have found it only useful for the indoor growers arsenal. Milk is a dinner bell to the small rodents like sing it from the hillsides in a chant status.
Disclaimer= not offending or upending anyone’s personal joy of milk or other garden products. This is just this posters experience spraying milk outdoors. ….it’s a big dud.
I will probably underplant with a few low growing lantanas, though mostly I will keep the drip line clear and mulched. They bloom for me from late spring until hard frost in November or thereabouts, and produce lots of nectar. I will not plant marigolds, the usual recommendation, as in my area they strongly attract fire ants, who make mounds around their stems. I can underplant with garlic, however.
I’ll be sure to have a rotation of sunflowers, tithonia, flowering tobacco, etc, nearby as well. I grow milkweed, wild sages, daisies, etc ornamentally nearby.
There is a bird feeder about twenty-five feet away.
Maybe by that time there will be a category for such things. There are entire groups on social media for this. Many many websites, blogs, reddits, youtube channels… literally everywhere but here. I really think there is education to be had somewhere in this. Instead of arguments.
I dont want this challenge to be US vs THEM… Or for this to seem like some kind of radical thought process.
This shouldnt be an intervention either… i for one think that those that spray should spray… just the same way i feel about drug addicts and gamblers and alcoholics. I think that they should do what they want to do…its their lives. With each of those situations they impact others and that is their responsibility…not mine.
I prep areas with leaves… i put a pile where i plan on planting something…the worms till the area nicely and the soil is soft…very soft when you remove the leaves to plant… thats me though. Plus there is worm castings already there…and the grass and roots have been devoured. The cardboard and woodchips is a good idea… but kinda the same but easier with leaves… and no worry about the incorporation of wood chips in the hole digging…if u can understand that. Grass clippings on top of the leaves also helps and is a nice feeding and nutrient load for the hole site… just dont overpile it and make a hot compost… more or less sprinkle it.
PM me for a fall shipment of a Iowa White Peach tree… This is also handy to have as you can start more trees by seed if u wish and sell those trees to like minded folk…even sell or give away seeds to good folk. Its a tree that keeps on giving… no matter how u look at it.
Only a small % of my customers want unblemished fruit if it means an extra 4-5 sprays as it usually does for apples and a smaller % sells any of the fruit form orchards I manage. With the largest orchards a lot is given away to friends and food banks and picking parties are common. Most of my customers have millions at least in the mid double digits and a couple are billionaires.
Right now some sights are harvesting unblemished peaches and nectarines from a total of 2 spring sprays- none have been sprayed for over 45 days but the Indar-Captan mix is working that well- as it usually does. I did what I hope is my last fungicide spray for stonefruit this last week but didn’t spray anything almost ripe.
Sound fruit is what I’m going for, and not all the fruit on any given tree is pristine, but often the majority of stonefruit is. Without summer sprays apples get summer fungus which is ugly but tasteless.
And then there is Mars leaf blotch which can require a couple summer sprays to control on susceptible apples.
I have 3 kinds of bee balm going… its an absolute must for local pollinators…plus its a hummingbird magnet…and the stems provide habitat for bees and tiny wasps… all are your friends in this journey…and your home seems like an oasis for predators and prey…
We are going way off course here… but i think growing things as companions to things that we eat are also on topic.
Im sure someones feathers will be ruffled due to the ‘clutter’ that they despise.
No offense taken… i am a curious learner by nature… I think the jist of the way that Stephan does it is to spray it on a sunny day and the bacteria in the whey overtakes the bacterias and fungis on the leaves… i think he prefers to do it on a sunny day that it will rain shortly thereafter… so that may or may not effect the negatives of the rats or other things.
Im sure everyone has a variation of a technique that works better on this or that… but im sure that just willy nilly spraying of milk would yield bad results overall.
I think Stephans learnings are from the French which they passed to him from their experiences on how Brazilians? combat fungis and bacterias by spraying whey…
I am not as sharp as i used to be but i am in the ballpark there somewhere.
We spray, but we don’t spray as much as the commercial guide for our area recommends. Dry weather really helps reduce the frequency of the spray, up to about 4 weeks in very dry season with no rain for 4 weeks prior to harvest. Been a wet year this year with 4 1/2 inches of rain last week and we were concerned about quality. Contender seems to suffer from bugs and brown rot less than Fire Prince or Winblo although it ripens later. Looks like about 3 bushels per tree on the Contenders this year. Now we just need to sell them!
I have no experience in this but another thing to consider is if something like peppermint, garlic, and or cayenne pepper extracts could be added to the milk/whey to deter small mammals if it does not rain shortly after application.
I just got an e-mail from a customer-friend I installed a small orchard for in a very suburban home in N. NY City. He is raving about his crop of nectarines he got with zero spray. It is a surprising year so far. I wonder how his plums will do.
like sing it from the hillsides in a chant status.
