Non-carbaryl Sevin

I am in the middle of my annual war with Japanese beetles and Sevin had always been my go to. I searched on “Sevin” and did not find that it has been noted here that at least on major supplier of Sevin now uses that name and the same packaging for a non-carbaryl preparation. GardenTech sells stuff in a bottle labeled Sevin that has a permethrin derivative as the active ingredient. In the past Sevin has been used as a brand name for carbaryl. It is now simply a brand name. They should at least prominently label this product as a new formulation. I have bought this for so many years I did not notice it was not carbaryl until I was mixing it and noticed it was not as thick as I was used to. I would imagine lots of other folks will be similarly fooled. It claims to kill JBs so I used it. Hope it works. The JBs are fewer this year, perhaps due to the hot dry weather, but every time we get any rain I get a new bloom.

Chuck

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That’s not going to help if you want to use the product for chemical thinning

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Interesting and strange because the Sevin brand is to carbaryl as Tylenol is to acetaminophen.

Is the label essentially the same or have the number of crops and PHI’s changed?

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The label and directions are different and one assumes are appropriate for the active ingredient. The main label on the bottle is very similar to the one for the carbaryl product using the same colors and only minor variations that are within what one would expect from simple updating of the packaging. I think it has “trusted for 40 years”, though I have disposed of the containers. That phrase always meant carbaryl to me because folks have been dusting their veggies with the powdered version for that many years.

I see this as a case of deliberate obfuscation.

Chuck

Indeed - perhaps rising to consumer fraud

Did you buy any and any good source o buy them?

This is the sort of thing that annoys me. I’m not sure why they made the switch, except that permethrin is much less toxic to mammals A certainly valid reason, but I find that, most of the time when a product is replaced with something “safer”, the elephant in the room is that it simply does not work that well.

For better for worse, the only thing that really does kill Japanese beetles for me is carbaryl. Everything else is middling at best. I certainly don’t use it indiscriminately, but I will use it when I need to if I need to kill off a big population of Japanese beetles.

It’s kinda like how Sudafed sold off the shelf is now phenelyphrine instead of pseudoephedrine. Despite the fact that studies have shown phenelyphrine to be nearly useless as an oral application, it is still sold as “Sudafed”.

If I need a nasal decongestant, I go up to the counter, show my ID, certify that I don’t have a meth lab, and get the good stuff. If I buy the other stuff, I might as well chew on Brach’s candy, as it has the same effect on my nasal congestion.

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Control of Japanese beetles is virtually my only use of carbary, though I have very occasionally dusted squash plants with the powder when squash bugs were particularly bad. I like the bees and try to limit my use of insecticides as much as I can while still keeping my fruit and nut trees and grapes in decent shape. The JBs have been sufficiently numerous here for the last several years that I doubt my plum trees especially would have survived. That might be true for hazelnuts as well, as the JBs seem to gind them second only to the plums for tastiness. They do seem to like basil and asparagus ferns, but those I can protect somewhat by mechanical removal. In fact, one of my favorite pass times this time of year is to see how many JBs will fit on one of my Harbor Freight electric fly swatters. If you hold the button down they eventually start to smoke. I really don’t like JBs.

Chuck

I suppose the difference between homeowner and commercial is in the concentration

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I meant Zeta-cypermethrin

The liquid Gardentech Sevin I bought last week at the hardware store still had carbaryl in it.

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I’ve used both the old formula of Sevin and Permethrin. Permethrin is not labeled for fruit trees. I presume that is related to human consumption of the fruit. I typically use it on young seedlings and trees for wildlife, not human consumption. I found it to be just as or more effective than Sevin and it seems to last much longer before retreatment is required. I don’t know how effective zeta-cypermethrin is compared to permethrin, but I presume they are related.

I bought the permethrin from Keystone in a concentrate and mix it for other applications like spraying clothing for ticks and decide to try it on some seedlings. It was labeled for ornamentals and I used that mix rate.

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The plague is winding down. Few JBs on anything except the basil. They seem to be drawn to the basil, though it also seems to make them dopy when they eat it. I assume the essential oils of the basil contain some compounds rather closely related to the JB pheromones. They seem to be most strongly drawn to the flowers, though they go after the entire plant. I wait until afternoon and then douse them with slightly soapy water. Just a few drops of Dawn in a spray bottle seems to smother them nicely without further damaging the basil. I figure if I can keep them from completely consuming the basil we’ll still get some useful leaves when they finally are completely gone. Anyone else noted the JB basil connection? I’m thinking I should plant a large bed of basil far from my fruit trees next year and soap them to death instead of worrying about what is or isn’t in Sevin.

Chuck

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I spent about 15 minutes looking for the label for old version of Sevin with Cabaryl as the active ingredient. No luck. Then I came here and did a search, this thread came up with the label I was looking for. Awesome! Thanks ILparadiseFarm for posting them.
Now, I’m trying to defend against ambrosia beetles. Lost 3 trees to them last year. Old version of Sevin label does not mention it killing ambrosia beetle, newer version does. This will be my first non-organic product use in the orchard (I think). Actually no, I had to spray immunox last year. Anyway, hopefully this will take care of my ambrosia beetle issues. If anybody else has any other suggestions, I’m all ears.

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Susu,

As mentioned the new Sevin is basically a consumer version of Mustang Maxx. I’ve used Mustang for quite a few years. I’ve found it to be lethal to any beetles (I see them dead.) I think it will take care of your ambrosia beetles, as long as they are exposed to the spray.

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Carbyl is the only thing I’ve used that controls JBs. It is insanely effective. It’s like napalm to then. As soon as it hits them they start convulsing and drop from my trees. 10 minutes later the mulch below my trees are speckled with dead beetles.

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That sounds an awful lot like taking 1/8 of an Advil and hoping it’ll help your headache. Is it even useful at that concentration?

For growing apples, what is there about the New Ingredient Sevin to not like? It is labeled against curculio, coddling moth and maggot fly, and the label claims 4 weeks of residual activity.

What there is not like is that my state’s extension etymologist warns me that broad-spectrum insecticides like either Classic Sevin or New Sevin can result in mite outbreaks. Anyone here have a bad experience with Sevin in that regard?

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Nothings perfect, but I’d rather deal with mites than curculio and codling moth.

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Pardon my ignorance, but what is a person dealing with if the mites “flare up.”

I have been using the Classic Sevin in rotation with the then-available Ortho formulation of the neo-nic Acetamiprid, and one May in a year I wasn’t able to get a dormant oil spray on in spring owing to weather conditions, the leaves of many of my trees were shriveling.

The people at Extension blamed it on “mites” and recommended I treat the trees with the Ortho product, of which I told them I had just applied as my first post-petal-fall insecticide. They suggested that or BT to suppress pests that chew the leaves.

I guess BT is still on the market, but it is getting hard to find in my area, but Ortho in their wisdom stopped making their Acetamiprid product to be “green.” I just want to know what I am in for if I switch to the New Formula Sevin.