Orchard planning - moving young pears and apple spacing

We’re putting our orchard along a lane at the front of our property. Last year we planted two dwarf pears and one semi dwarf in the center of the available space thinking that we would slowly add more pears. Now that we’ve realized we can do apples we want to move the smaller pears to the side.

Our current plan is to put mm111 apples along the lane spaced at 15’ and then a second staggered row about 15’ closer to the house. The lane is on the north side of the property running east west. We’d move the pears (drk blue) to the end of the row (lt blue) to make room to put the apples all together.

So now the questions: Is 15ft enough space for mm111 if we plan to keep them at 10-12ft high or do we really need 20ft? There’s a lot of contradictory information on spacing out there. Is it difficult to keep mm111 that small? Would we be better off with a different rootstock? We don’t want to stake permanently which is why we though about mm111.

Is there are reason for rows that line up or are staggered rows ok? We want to block the view of the neighbor a bit.

And perhaps most importantly how difficult is it to move the pears without damaging them? (two are only about 2ft tall one is at about 3-4ft tall)

I should note that we’re still trying to figure out how close we can get to the woods on the west side of the property without having shade issues.

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15’ is sufficient for M111…just be prepared to wait 5 to 7 years for fruiting!

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Yeah, the 5-7 years is less than ideal, but since it’s the front yard we want something that will root well and hold itself up so we were leaning toward 111. That and it’s easy to find the varieties we want on 111. Are there more dwarfing rootstocks that do ok in clay and don’t need support past the first year or two?

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There are a number of ‘simi-dwarf’ Geneva rootstocks that are self supporting…but Cummins Nursery may be about the only source of already-grafted trees using these Cornell University roots.

I have apples on M111 planted 24Ft x 16ft.
15-20 yrs old .
The 16ft spacing in the row has worked well for low vigor varietys . ( honey crisp, gold rush, spur type ark black, etc…
However I have found it to close for the long term on more vigorous varietys. Trees can definitely be pruned to stay in that space, but if you have room a wider spacing could be beneficial…
The 24ft between row spacing has worked well, overall .
After 20yrs , some areas ( with jonagold, triploid vigor.)
Some rows are a challenge to get trough with a farm tractor.
If you have the room , ?
I recommend wider spacing,…as it allows them more room to grow, better air movement around trees, no sence in crowding things unless you are short on space.

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