I need an erect thornless backberry that ripens early, just after Natchez.
Has anybody tasted both or grown them next to each other for comparison ?
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I’m waiting for Ponca.
In this article, or maybe another? Many have been written. The Promo tour by the creators to put demand on the nurseries as people ask if they have it. Anyway they say Osage and Caddo are the berries that have the best flavor, so you have narrowed it down well. Ponca is earlier than both of them, and said to be a step above them in flavor. A whole new level were the words. Hype? I guess we will find out in a couple years.
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I need to plant some more blackberries this year but I could eliminate a Natchez row and replace it with Ponca later.
Osage was the first Arkansas blackberry that was promoted as having superior flavor. Then came Caddo and now it Ponca. I have a lot of respect for their breeding program, but Hype may be right term.
If I can get some objective info during a grower conference in March I will pass it on.
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I gave up on thornless types myself, but Ponca sure sounds good, I’ll give it a test run. My goal is to grow exceptional tasting fruit. I’m willing to struggle with growing issues if the fruit stands out. We all have different goals.
Caddo seems too new to get much info on? Osage has survived all introductions after it’s own. Still around, and often praised for flavor.
I agree with Drew that Caddo is probably too new to have much real world experience out there. So if you want a known, instead of possibly getting caught on the Caddo hype exceeding the reality, I’d go with Osage.
Assuming the taste may be on a similar level and better than most/all of the others in the series, I think there are 2 things about Caddo that would make me consider it for you pick over Osage. The first is that the berries look to be bigger. I would expect people, especially kids, would get excited by big berries. Plus people probably fill up their containers faster and maybe buy a little more. The second is that the growth habit, from the little I’ve seen describing it, may be a more erect with Caddo. I think that might make it easier to manage and a little easier to pick. But this is just from looking at the videos and documents available, so it is more or a risk than the known growth and taste of Osage.
Good luck!
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Zen that was really good. Big berries are awesome, good points all around.
. I just wish I liked thornless better. The thorny ones I grow are so much better. But man do i pay for it. Some of the hardest thorns to remove from your skin. No matter how careful you are, they will find your skin! My wife bought me some leather “Plainsman” gloves and they fit well with enough feel to tie stuff. And you can squeeze a thorny cane as hard as you can and they will NOT go through the leather. I love these gloves!
It would be so nice not to deal with the thorns. I’m afraid I like the berries too much, so they have to stay! But to have at least one plant I can remove the gloves for will be a pleasure!
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Where do you get your blackberries. I need to replace a few of my Navaho and Apache that have died last year
I like Indiana Berry or Nourse Farms
Indiana has Caddo for 4.75 each buy 10 for 3.95 each. They carry Osage too
Nourse Farms requires a minimum of 5 of each type. I hardly ever order there. Good plants usually at both places and they back them.
I ordered from Indiana this year. I ordered a couple Rhubarbs and a couple blueberry plants.
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thanks
I’m in 7a Chattanooga. Only grown the Navajo and Apache sold at Lowe’s. May try these new varieties and a few primark 45. I prefer the smaller berries. Used to pick wild throned berries in Missouri. I got cut to hell but it was tasty. I’ll take any advice I can get.
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Right now Caddo, Osage are your best bets. Navajo is decent, I liked it. Caddo and Osage are supposed to be better. I’m holding out for Ponca. I only have room for one plant. I already grow siskiyou, marion, new berry, tayberry, and wyeberry. All of these have rich fantastic flavor. I have grown them some time, no plans to cull them. All keepers for me. All trailing and thorny. I love the flavor of the trailing and thorny. Well these berries have such distinct tastes I could probably tell them apart by taste alone. All the same I seem to like the trailing thorny types. These all though are zoned pushed for me, so my yields are never outstanding. Mostly due to limiting size so I can protect. I need something that is excellent and better adapted to my area. Hoping Ponca works for me in this regard. Indiana Berry should have it 2021.
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Thanks. Ordered 10 Osage and 10 primark 45 from that Indiana Berry place. I’ve got the space to play with and never found a cobbler that I didn’t like
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You may already be aware of it, but PrimeArk 45 is a thorny variety. You had mentioned the thorns in another thread, and was wondering if you were wanting to order only thornless. PA 45 is a primocane variety, but if you want a thornless primocane berry, then there’s PA Freedom and Traveler.
I have both of those, Freedom suckers a lot more and has bigger berries, but isn’t as hardy as Traveler. At least in my location last year, their first year in the ground. So far this winter it looks like my PAF is doing better, with less winter killed canes. PA 45 is supposed to a bit more hardy than either of these other two varieties.
Yea I will do a trial with the thorny primocanes. Seems like the thorns are a minor price to pay. May put them outside the fenced in garden
Okay, good luck with them. The thorny ones may taste better than the two thornless varieties. I think you’ll be pleased with IB’s plants, I’ve ordered from them several times and was always impressed by the roots on their plants.
@clarkinks planted a bunch of PA45 a couple years ago. I was wondering how they have done for him, production and flavor wise. I don’t know of anyone else on here who grows them.
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The big planting did not survive the drought though the test crops are doing very good. In my experience primeark45 in Kansas is truly everbearing with large , good tasting berries. Freedom thornless does ok but not as good as 45. I did not give them much special care to test how they truly would do in a really big planting. There are many more productive berries that can be planted if a single large crop is wanted. 45 is what should be planted for s continuos crop.
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I’m about 1.5 hours west of @clarkinks I planted 80 foot rows of both 45 and freedom last year thanks to Clark’s recommendations. They both looked great going into winter, I topped a bunch of them at 5 foot well before fall. We had several ice storms here which broke some of my canes even though they were trellised really good. Freedoms produced a couple gallons of blackberries the first year, no fruit on 45s the first year.
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In the ground.
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can you describe newberry and wyeberry?
My wife loves tayberries so much that I ordered 2 more plants for this year.
Scott
Wyeberries are probably an offspring of Boysenberry. It is slightly larger, and ripens a touch earlier. It is tart though, a unique taste, not like either raspberry or blackberry… It’s a pain to grow thorny. Twice though I had people tell me that I should go commercial with the jam I make from a mix of tayberries and wyeberries. I’m too old, I’m done. I only make it occasionally. Not a big jam consumer.
Newberry is a very rich tasting blackberry that you can taste the raspberry genes in the mix. At first I didn’t notice, but as the plant matured the berries took on this raspberry aftertaste. It may not be hardy here. I protect it with my figs. Productive, large berry. Not as tart if you let hang till calyx is crispy and berry is soft. Good for fresh eating. Top shelf flavor, I love this berry It is thorny though!
Nothing really tastes like the tayberry, I put a 2nd plant too. One from Brady as his seemed to have longer fruit.
Newberry was developed by Oregon State and ARS. They also made the Columbia series. I’m adding Columbia Giant. It is rather tart. In taste tests when made into a syrup with added sweetener beat Marion. Which i think fresh has the best flavor of any blackberry. Thornless trailing.
I’m also thinking of adding Hall’s Beauty Just for it’s ornamental value. It has double flowers. Trailing thornless from OSU too.
The thornless gene is a different gene than used in the Arkansas program. In that program next year I will add their newest addition which they rave is their best Ponca.
What’s nice is all three of these ripen fairly early. Giant ripens before SWD. The others finish soon after the start or even before. I removed the Arkansas thornless as they ripened with SWD and also to me that thornless gene gives a off flavor in the berries at times. Much more noticeable if not fully ripe.
I love blackberry jams and syrups so much. I was bummed to remove the bushes. But the SWD loves blackberries and my yard was grand central station for SWD. Removing them has really helped keep the number down.
So maybe I can get huge production again with these earlier types. Columbia Giant will only be used for processing. Productive, largest fruit of any thornless. A no brainer! The rest for fresh eating with extras processed. Oh I also only use wyeberry for processing only. It is a little tart for fresh eating.
I ordered my 2 from Ison’s.
I’ve not really noticed any SWD (which now that I’ve written it down means they will be an issue this year, I’m sure). Then again I have few late soft fruit. Maybe my Triple Crown have had it, but since no one here really eats them it likely I may just be missing it.
I am also adding a couple raspberries, but I tried to pick earlier varieties. Time will tell…
I got those sprays done earlier in the week and I’m sure the last couple night’s rain might have just washed it all away… Oh well. I’ll get one more in a little later in the spring.
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