Ufffffffff My God, I have a lot of work and very little free time.
Oscar, I have a lot of experience in plant and non-plant multiplication since mushrooms are not very well defined (they do not belong to the animal or plant kingdom), in culture media and sterilized substrates.
In my case all my life since I was a child I have been a “restless ass” (Spanish expression for people who are always thinking about something new project and carry it out).
More than 20 years ago I was growing saprophytic mushrooms in bags with sterilized substrates (then we did not have the information or the means available today), and once you gain experience there are good results.
Keep in mind that there were no mycelia for sale then like today.
Look this web :
So we had to get own mycelia, by sporation in distilled water of the saprophytic mushrooms that we liked the most for their qualities (large hat and small foot).
You should know that growing mushrooms from “0” (without buying anything doing it all at home) is infinitely more complicated due to contamination than in vitro propagation of a fruit tree from plant explants (this is much easier).
Also then we didn’t even know what a HEPA filter is hahahahahahaha.
And still we were successful.
I am not a biologist, but I have a lot of experience in this regard (by empirical science), so I can give you a lot of good advice to do this type of work “in an amateur plan”.
Fundamentally everything is based on asepsis and sterilization, since temperature and lighting are parameters that are totally easy to handle.
I do not know if this thread where it is about Asiminas would be the appropriate one to talk about these issues, we almost better look for a thread that deals with the cultivation of mushrooms and in that thread I tell you my experiences and give you my best advices.
This simple apparatus is “the mother of the lamb” (Spanish expression that denotes maximum importance)
If made my own mushroom spawn to. With a pressure cooker. And a “glove box” i disinfected with alcohol spray.
Do you know of the “cardboard sterilization trick” ? the mycelium grows faster trough cardboard than the contamination. So putting your contaminated mycelium between two pieces of cardboard and sealing the edges helps. After the mycelium grows through the cardboard, it’s usually “clean”
Have you seen paul stamets his book on gourmet mushrooms?
It’s basically my reference source for all things growing mushrooms.
I’m currently trying out “long term” storage of mycelium in distilled water.
I have some test tubes filled with only mycelium and water, and some with a piece of wood with the mycelium. They mycelium should go almost in stasis and should keep almost indefinitely, even at room temperature. Or at least that’s what i was told. And am trying to verify on a non scientific level.
i wasn’t sure though if plant growing media survived the 120 C of a pressure cooker. But it seems fine with that. Still for me, the largest challenge would be sourcing the growing media and plant growth regulators. Most stores that sell those need you to have a company or special papers.
Plant growth regulators here are treated the same as pesticides, they need to be approved on a product by product basis before they can be sold to the non professional public.
take IBA rooting powder for example.
So some manufacturers went to the licensing hassle and costs. So can sell to the public. Others did not, and those can only be sold to “professionals” even tough they contain the same active ingredient in the same concentration.
Since there is no large public demand for in vitro culture growth regulators. As far is i know none of the manufacturers went trough the hassle to be able to sell to the public. Most/all of their business is professional.
If you have an EU source that sells to the public, please PM me
Also I’m in the market for a really large decent quality pressure cooker. They are more rare in the EU compared to the US.
Something similar like Amazon.com: Presto 01781 23-Quart Pressure Canner and Cooker: Kitchen & Dining
Preferable even larger (23+ quarts or 20+ liter)
Cheapest thus far if seen them, is around 200 euro. VS the ~100$ they cost in the US -_-
Does the same shortened life span also occur in own root tissue cultured tree’s? or has no-one tested that yet?
If “after death” the tree can be regrown/grafted from suckers. This would suggest to me, it’s the trunk that’s dying? not the roots?
Would it than not be useful to grow multi trunk pawpaw tree’s? And train up a new sucker every 5 years? and prune out the oldest trunk around 15 years, if it survived that long?
Seems like a waste to wait 5+ years for good fruit load, to than only have it last 10 years, before you have to start again
Hi Oscar.
If I know perfectly cardboard sterilization trick and I also have in my collection the book Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms (it is essential).
In my case, I have a hospitality business (2 restaurants and a hotel), so I have enormous pressure cookers.
If you are going to continue with the cultivation of mushrooms, it is very interesting to have a good large pressure cooker, but for plant multiplication by explants a large pot is not necessary, since you will only need to sterilize the culture medium.
The explants are cleaned by introducing them in a dilution of sodium hypochlorite whit destiated water (if you are interested I will send you information about the percentages to use of all the products per liter of water), and then they are cleaned in sterilized water before introducing them into the test tubes or plates of petri dishes where the culture medium has already been introduced under sterilized and aseptic conditions.
I have it extremely easy and comfortable, since the company that maintains the food health control of my company (INNOVA laboratories), are close friends of mine, so I can have all the material in your laboratory as if I were in my house (electric shaker, laminar flow hood, etc …), but I assure you that it can be done without laminar flow hood with enough success.
For the multiplication of invitro plants, one of the most important parameters is that the mother plant grows in the most aseptic conditions possible (if you do this you have half the battle won).
It is important to know that smaller explants grow whit less contaminated than larger ones in the culture medium, but smaller explants take much longer to root.
A small room very clean and without ventilation (exclusive for this type of work) sprayed with alcohol daily, and the day you go to work in it do the following.
Fill several small containers with alcohol, distribute them around the room, add fire with a lighter to the containers with alcohol, and let them burn for at least 15 minutes.
After those 15 minutes, clean with alcohol on the stainless steel work surface and working under alcohol flames, you can carry out the work as if you were in a laminar flow hood , with little or no risk of contamination.
My mother, you are another crazy person like me hahahahahahaha
i tend to thoroughly clean my shower and then work in there in a glovebox.
Haven’t had any contamination problems.
Still my biggest issue is getting the growing media and plant growth regulators. Where do you buy yours?
even though, a DIY laminair flow hood can be made for 200-300$. So maybe in a few year’s ill do that. Working in a glovebox (basically a plastic storage bin with gloves duct taped) is not that comfortable.
In a 2017 thread here @danzeb said he wanted to try the toothpick propagation technique (for hard to root species) on pawpaws but I don’t see a follow up post:
Oscar there are several laboratories where the culture medium is available.
This is very good and has a very good price.
I suppose you live in the Netherlands, since the product, if I remember correctly, is shipped from France.
Hi RichardRoundTree, keep in mind that Sigma Aldrich works with the German laboratory Merck, so in the country where there is a delegation of Merck laboratories (everywhere), you can buy Sigma Aldrich products.
Yes indeed , RichardRoundTree.
Really curious, but the matter already works this way, these are consequences of globalization.
Look at an example.
A small family had a fruit nursery in the town of de San Sadurní d’Anoia in de Catalonia region , they began to investigate, and more to investigate hahahahahahaha, and today you can buy rootpac rootstocks of the entreprise Agromillora practically all over the world.
Hello There,
A couple of recent posts were flagged for off-topic. We generally allow off topic here and there. I’d like to remind you to please stay on topic when you can.
Although your off topic such as mushroom growing or where one can buy culture medium, etc is interesting, the info was hidden inside a papaw thread.
Please feel free to create a new thread about mushroom growing in the General Gardening category. Thank you.
@mamuang et. al.
I agree posts should more or less stay on topic ,
But … this did not really stray as far as some may think ?
The discussion went to tissue culture of Pawpaw ,a type of propagation from cuttings. Which uses much of the same equipment, sterile techniques, sources of media as growing mushroom spawn, a plant tissue culture Lab and a mushroom spawn lab have much in common. Just sayin…
I also do not like to mix topics within the same post, since the information is mixed and this is not appropriate
I apologize and it will not happen again.
disc4tw , hahahahahaha , the bug of curiosity has bitten you hahahaha, you are liking the topic of handling the management of culture media.
It is not a problem, I am looking for a suitable post that talks about the cultivation of mushrooms, or in-vitro multiplication and there , that is the right place, we extend the information.
Come on with the pawpaw.
I have a good friend in Slovakia, who is a true connoisseur in the field of the Asiminas (he has been hybridizing for years).
He is an older man but an excellent person, he left you his mini-website in case any of you want to talk whit the (his name is Miro Straka), and he has some varieties “to take off the hat” hahahaha.
back to the point…
All propagation methods have already been very thoroughly studied, including propagation by cuttings and tissue culture. The result is that:
Asimina can be propagated from suckers but need good care if they are to survive initially.
Propagation by cuttings from adult trees is impossible (rooting under undermittend mist at 25°C and using IBA is 0%)
Cuttings taken from juvenile plants can be rooted under undermittend mist (but what is the point in that?)
Propagtion in vitro is possible only if the material is rejuvenated.
In short: No, propagation from cuttings in order to easily mass produce the better varieties and have them grown on their own root system is not possible!!
