FYI, for all pawpaw growers, I know some people out there have been saying that seed/flesh/pulp ratio is consistent, regardless of fruit size. It’s not. Actually, Neal talks about how seed size is consistent regardless of fruit size. Large seed in large fruit. Large seed in small fruit.
Here’s an example of Shenandoah from the same tree. (weight in grams)
Large Fruit
Small Fruit
Whole
350
84
Seed
34
12
Flesh
234
38
Skin
82
34
I carefully split the pawpaw lengthwise and pluck out the seed from the seed sack. The seed sack is left attached to the flesh and accounted in the flesh weight.
Many cultivars seem to self abort and manage cropping to optimize fruit weight. Many others require manual thinning.
It will be a pleasure.
Biggest challenge will be my personal health, as I’m starting this at retirement age, after fighting my way back from SARS-CoV2.
Wish me luck!
Thank you for clearing that up! I’ve heard people say that before and I think people have even quoted Neal on that, but they must’ve been mistaken. Never made sense to me so it confused me that Neal would say that. Seed size being relatively consistent does make more sense though, and actually matches what I’ve seen.
I mean it’s not rocket science. Anyone that grows pawpaws can clearly see that’s the case when the tree overcrops.
It’s just simple math, in any case. If a 3 ounce pawpaw is on the border line between forming 3 or 4 seeds, and it ends up forming 4, the ratio of the seed to flesh/pulp can go up a lot since there wasn’t much pulp to begin with. The 15th vs 16th seed of a 1 pound pawpaw won’t matter so much.
Neal recommended that I thin to 2-3 pawpaw per cluster for optimal fruit size, so that is what I’ve been doing.
I’m pretty sure those who are intentionally trying to win the largest pawpaw award at the festival are thinning to 1 a cluster and even going further to remove more than half of the formed clusters. Neal has mentioned he observes distal fruit (from trunk) to be smaller (tendency not a hard fast rule).
Last week, I just had a Shenandoah fall off that was 14 oz from a cluster of four (the other three were slightly smaller). The next day the unthinned cluster of 9 were 2-3 ounces.
I’m interested in strong flavor, heat tolerance & shipability.
I bought Al Horn’s White seeds because it’s very firm & Cliff England has it companion planted with Nyomi’s Delicious.
I got NC-1 seeds because very flavorful & planted near Wabash, Mango, Sunflower & Greenriver Belle.
I’ve been thinning to 2-3 per cluster as well in most cases. The flowers that I did controlled crosses on, I let form more per cluster. Allegheny, though, I thinned to 1 or 2 per cluster and heavily thinned this year. That helped quite a bit since Allegheny really does tend to produce too many with resultant smaller size if you don’t thin enough. Still had some that were pretty seedy, but they were definitely larger, on average, than last year.
I’m both a visionary & an OCD fanatic.
Peterson didn’t know that there was going to be a drought.
In contrast, I’m someone who has been growing things in the Sonoran & Mojave deserts for 6 decades.
I know how to optimize a micro environment.
Plus I have 5,600 seeds from the trees that did best in a Kentucky drought.
If 1% thrive, it’s still a success!
Everything is already paid for in full.
I’m retired & there is no debt.
And this is a flood plane.
The rain here is in summer.
It’s doable.
This is the first year I have fruit from my pawpaw trees.
The last few years I got fruit shipped to me by friends.
They were all good.
But home grown pawpaw is surprisingly even better. Much better. The fruits are small as my tree is small but the flavor is so good!
One of the persons I shared with said that they didn’t want to eat anything else as they were savoring the after taste.
This is turning out to be one of my favorite fruits.
Like cherimoya. But better than average varieties. Tropical flavor.
Excellent texture — I like them at a stage similar in texture to a ripe avocado. pleasant after taste. No bitterness. No metallic taste. I am very sensitive to metallic flavors in pawpaw.
It is quite vigorous here and maybe my most vigorous variety. But that might be a rootstock thing.
Some people say off taste because too over ripe, others say because under ripe, others that was picked earlier & doesn’t ripen off the tree properly, still others that it is because the person scrapped the spoon on the interior of the skin, still others that its just a genetic trait of some pawpaw.
Can you clarify?
Definitely unripe, overripe, skin can all have undesirable after taste. But some wild fruit (also some cultivated varieties) can be pretty nasty/metallic too. Especially if you are sensitive.
The peterson varieties are all pretty good as long as fruit has the right level of ripeness. Overripe fruit as well as underripe have quite a bad after taste. To me atleast.
I guess that I’m going to be finding out if I start 5,600 seedlings.
Have you noticed any unique aromas to the leaves or blossoms of pawpaw with off flavored fruits?
Anything unique about leaf shape, texture or color?
Anything different about bark color or texture?
Anything unusual about the wood like Blue Tint disease?
Nope. Sometimes certain cultivars have color break (on the fruit I mean). My frakenpawpaw has leaves that are indistinquishable.
Nope
Nope, but most growing pawpaw on this forum don’t seem to a problem with BSD. Powell and Postman have speculated it probably needing wet and cool conditions.
Chappelle and Shenandoah do not taste similar, at least to me. Strength of flavor for those you mentioned would go something like (lightest to heaviest): Shenandoah, Atwood, Mango, Maria’s Joy, Sunflower, Chappelle, Wabash, Potomac, Susquehanna.
Also, people continuously ask about getting a full range of flavors, but many of the people growing pawpaws on this forum can only talk about “hints of [x flavor].” Pawpaws by definition are very very rich fruits, relative to others like apples, pears, peaches, cherries. The difference between a Shenandoah and a Susquehanna isn’t like the difference between a Fuji and a Granny Smith. I can find people who can’t taste a difference between those two pawpaws. They exist. I have yet to find a person who can’t taste difference between a Fuji and Granny Smith.
In fact, there are plenty of people who can’t taste the difference between pawpaw cultivars.
There are regional differences, which I have posted about. Sweet Alice doesn’t do well in the north but Ron Powell swears by it’s flavor for those in the south.
I once shared like 30 pounds of pawpaw with about 15 neighbors, all new to pawpaw, which I posted about earlier in the thread probably a year or so back. Probably 5 couldn’t care for them. 5 couldn’t taste difference between them. And the other 5 were all split on which ones they liked.
These taste differences are well reflected in the opinions on this forum, not just in cultivar, but also in state of ripeness. @IL847 will eat them fully dark, loves them all. @Barkslip likes NC-1 considers Shenandoah and Mango to be watery, lacking of flavor @tonyOmahaz5 likes one of my seeds and named it Cherimowest and enjoys Mango and Shenandoah @FarmGirl-Z6A I mailed her a bunch of different peterson ones and they like them all as I recall @FloridaFrugivoreFami also mailed a bunch and they seem to like them all @Bradybb@Vid, @ramv@TrilobaTracker@SMC_zone6 have very wide palettes when it comes to pawpaws and seem to be able to taste subtle differences
You wouldn’t even think it, but even Cliff England has taste preferences. He really only eats the lighter flavored ones. Scott Smith too isn’t crazy about pawpaws and only has a few select ones he’s willing to eat
I know I’m forgetting to tag probably half a dozen other people who I have either overnighted pawpaw to or have mentioned their taste preferences (apologies). My point being that taste really really span entire length.
For all those about to put down some pawpaws and are new to the fruit… I seriously recommend eating at least one before you do.Otherwise you’ll end up like this. Pawpaws aren’t like other fruits. There are no dwarfing rootstock. You’re waiting 6 to 8 years for fruit and if you don’t like them and want to remove said tree, it’s a pain in the butt because they sucker like mad sometimes (20+ feet often), and the taproot is very very deep.
I agree with this assessment and order of flavor profiles. Chappelle is a full flavored delicious cultivar that has the best of the flavor of Susquehanna without the overpowering part. It’s just about perfect for me. Others in that ball park are Potomac, and Jerry’s Big Girl.
I don’t know how it’s possible someone could taste Shenandoah and Susquehanna and not taste the difference
