I did order a couple of persimmon trees from Nolin River a few years ago. The Morris Burton never did leaf out. He sent a replacement tree with no problems.
The other great part about going to any nursery is you pick out your own trees. Could be worth the drive.
Morris Burton is an excellent flavored persimmon.
10 to 20 acres of pecans is a recipe to go broke. Adjusted income will be about $3000 per acre once the initial 10 years of tree growth is done. This is NOT enough to support the cost of specialty equipment like shakers, sprayers, harvesters, and irrigation maintenance. Search for “pecan economic analysis” to find a few relevant documents. I got a document from Bill Goff about 25 years ago that laid it out in bare terms. It takes a minimum of 100 acres of pecans to be economically viable. Take a close look at the businesses growing pecans in your area and you will find that 1000 acres is a common planting objective. At $3000 annual revenue per acre, that is a $3 million operation.
Another thing to consider is that the number of trees planted per acre has a huge influence on the long term profitability of a pecan business. The sweet spot is around 35 trees per acre implying use of long term production cultivars and short term precocious varieties that are removed by thinning. Planting 35 trees per acre works out to spacing of 35’ X 35’ or 30 X 40 which gives 36 trees per acre. See the “hypothetical comparison of initial tree density” chart in this document. https://www.tpga.org/pdf/pecanvarietiespollinationandspacing-montenesbitt.pdf
Thanks for the responses guys. I figured this would be the case. The fact that just recently many orchards in my area were put back into production is a good indicator of “go big or go home”. Fusion, you mentioned you are planning to plant many trees over the next few years. It appears you are doing this for breeding, hobby, or experimental work? However, with this many trees are you supplying irrigation? I imagine you will be producing a significant amount of pecans either way. Perhaps irrigation, very low input varieties (no spray, no shaker), ATV small volume nut collection would be another option. Combine this with an organic, high flavor (Elliot, Kanza), direct to consumer marketing business may provide a nice side income? Any thoughts?
I have 130 acres with plans to plant 50 acres of pecans. I already have 50 acres of black walnut.
Impressive, thanks for all the thoughts. I am looking forward to seeing your progress. Please post it here
We have over 14 different varieties at www.myperfectplants.com and I am sure we will have something to accommodate your needs in the Northern regions.
Check out our pecan grow guide here: https://myperfectplants.com/pecans/
Can ship anywhere in the US!
May I get some details on Jackson and Creek pecans (scab/pest resistance, nut quality, number of frost free days, etc.)? I’m a little hesitant to trust every publication I come across.
I spent a lot of time investigating Jackson and Creek before setting out trees last year. Short story is that neither is worth growing if you want long term consistent production.
Jackson is unusual for very high overlap of pollen shed with flower receptivity. It has better than average scab resistance. The Achilles heel of Jackson is low production. Nuts are large but usually are well filled. I have one tree of Jackson that is about 20 years old. I do not intend to propagate any more.
Creek has good scab resistance combined with a tendency to overbear. It is very susceptible to phylloxera which is problematic in this area. I set out one tree to use in breeding. I do not count on it to make a regular crop.
I’ve been delving around on the internet and found a few articles that are worth a look.
Be careful with this one. The trees are only 6 years old. Excel has HUGE problems with overbearing as a mature tree.
Organization of this presentation from Arkansas is a bit chaotic, but a lot of information is there if you care to dig through it. Most of it is compiled from Alabama, Georgia, and USDA data.
This article has a lot of 20,000 foot view items about pecan culture.
This one discusses evaluation of several USDA selections for commercial production in south Georgia. One of them might be worth pursuing for yard tree use. I spent 2 hours going through the fine details to figure out that only that one is worth a trial. http://horttech.ashspublications.org/content/24/3/407.full.pdf+html
This slide presentation is worth a look to get an idea of the scale of Georgia/Alabama/Florida pecan planting. It is 5 years out of date. I talked to 3 nurseries in the last 6 months that each say they are propagating 500,000 trees per year. Based on this, there is reason to believe more than 2,000,000 pecan seedlings are currently being planted per year. I can’t guarantee this number so do your own due diligence.
This one from Lenny Wells is worth a look. GA 00-7-75 is now named Avalon.
This presentation projects the U.S. pecan crop will double by 2025. It is based off 2012 data which does not factor in the dramatic increase in trees planted over the last 5 years.
We grow both Creek and Jackson in our orchards. Creek is extremely productive with proper management. Irrigation and crop load management are essential. We spray once a year for phylloxera and have no problems. We selectively thin the crop on Creek in late July. Our 40 acre block has averaged just under 1500 lbs per acre on 12/13 yr old trees the last 2 yrs. We have had six commercial harvest on these trees.
Jackson does have low production. However, because of its disease resistance and quality of nuts it makes an excellent yard tree.
Excel is very disease resistant. We have 10 and 12 year old blocks and we do not spray them at all. Production is very high and we will crop load thin when needed. So far quality holds up really well. One of the easiest cultivars to grow. Trees have a spreading nature and therefore a large amount of fruiting area. Trees should be spaced a little wider to take advantage of this.
The Federal Marketing Order on pecans ahs been in effect for 2 years. Current assessment is 3 cents on improved varieties and 2 cents on native/seedling pecans.
BambooMan, Looks like you got a good reply from someone who knows his business! I bought trees from Bass pecan nursery last year.
Max, will UGA let you propagate any of the new selections commercially? I’m wondering about Huffman and Avalon in particular.
Thanks for the responses guys, this is stuff is gold. Hey Max, does Bass have plans in the near future to release the 3 numbered pecans that you guys discussed Sunday night of the NNGA/NAFEX convention?
There are two different sources of the UGA released cultivars. Darrel Sparks group released Huffman and several other cultivars over the last few years from a breeding program These are exclusively licensed to just a couple of nurseries in GA with no plans for allowing others access to the intellectual property. There is a private sector component to these cultivars.
Avalon is different. It is totally developed by UGA as a low input cultivar. It is a seedling selection. In my conversations with them they are only licensing to GA nurseries currently and will begin to license to nurseries from other states when GA reaches saturation. Avalon has a royalty attached.
All of the GA varieties from both Sparks and UGA are patented.
Yes, we will be releasing some of the numbered selection from our development program in fall of 2018. RH-1 and SD-8 will definitely be released this year. CF-1 is highly probable at this time. RH-4 and RH-5 are under review. RH-4 showed a little late season scab this year. Heavy scab pressure in this wet year. Our goal with these selections is for low input. This is the reason for the hesitation on RH-4. RH-5 is a question of productivity. It originated on a nurse branch of a top worked tree and our replications are young leading to less than a full picture on productivity. RH-5 has beautiful quality and so far no scab.
We will also have available Big Dan and Hilton pecans this fall. I had Big Dan in my presentation. Very large nut. Low 30’s count. Medium quality with kernel that can be dark, especially on dry years. Old but not available anywhere, Pretty good large pecan. Hilton is a local selection grown for over 40 years in one orchard. Medium size, good quality very early pecan. For us, harvest is usually a week after Pawnee.
All of these will be available in 5x5x12’ tree bands this fall.
Here is Max’s facebook link with some interesting photos of some of the pecans mentioned above. https://www.facebook.com/basspecantrees/
Max, a general question about a pecan I have been sent that appears to be a seedling variety. It is 60 nuts per pound, 49% kernel, good well filled nuts with no sprays, no scab, an annual bearer with low alternation, cracking is decent. A guy in Evergreen, AL has several 50 year old trees that he propagated. In your opinion, would this pecan be worth propagating commercially? for yard tree use?
Would you be willing to post more info about the pecans listed above? (RH-1, SD-8, CF-1, RH-4, RH-5, Big Dan, and Hilton) I’d like to add them to my pecan pollination spreadsheet. Here are the data items I’m tracking:
Name: variety name
Cross: (Female X Male) if known
Adapt: Southern, Northern, Far Northern
Type: Dichogamy, protandrous or protogynous
LB#: number of nuts to a pound
PctK: (Kernel weight / total nut weight)
ABI: Alternate Bearing intensity
Scab: I’m only tracking nut scab at this time, 1.0=none, 2.0=slight, 3.0=moderate,4.0=heavy, 5.0=unsprayed Pawnee
Yield: I’m tracking years 11 to 20 yield to give an idea of productive potential
Cracking: How well does the kernel separate from the shell
Shuck Split date: when 50% of nuts have shuck split
Here is an example of a variety:
Cross: G. Grande X Barton
Shuck Split Date: October 5th
Here is a link to the pollination spreadsheet if you would like to take a look.
Hover over a variety name to see a descriptive note. Put an X in column A for two varieties and a macro will collapse varieties between them so pollination traits can be compared.
Hey Fusion, I’m planning to do a good bit of pecan topwork in the next couple of months. I feel heat is a big problem with callousing and scion longevity in my climate. I am wrapping the scions with parafilm and sealing the graft area to prevent moisture loss. I’ve seen Dax’s buddy lightly wrap the entire scion and graft area with foil (shiny side out). I think this is a great idea for my area. The scion can still “breath,” and in a week or two the foil can be removed once a callous has formed. What’s your feelings on this technique.
My buddy usually puts a bag over the union leaving the scion exposed to breathe. Then the scion and union are lightly covered with foil. I don’t know if you missed the bag going over the union or not? Maybe Darrell does have an opinion of both your question and the additional adding of a bag.
Here’s that video where he shows all this:
Yes I do plan to bag it,
I tried to paraphrase, I tend to be a little long-winded normally.
Your buddy is great, I’ve watched that video multiple times.
When I used the term “breath,” I may have made things confusing. I should have said “allow the buds to push.”
Bill Reid has a good video on grafting with the inlay bark graft using foil and a ziploc bag.