Pecan


#383

These are Stuart from IL across from Terre Haute IN. Brought up from Alabama a long time ago that must have adapted.

Bought from Ebay. Asked Wes Rice what he thought and he said Stuart. Wes said people often buy pecans from the south and pass them off as native to their area but not the case. I spent a long time getting all the details from the gentleman and he’s given permission to collect scionwood.

Best regards,

Dax


#384

Dax,
Are you saying this IL tree is a grafted Stuart, or a Stuart seedling?
I’ve got one Stuart tree here(southern west-central KY), grafted from the old tree on the homestead back in east AL, mainly for nostalgia’s sake. It matures nuts here… but scabs so badly most years that they’re worthless.

On the ‘papershell’ topic… I think Mahan when I see that term; not Stuart.
There are (or were… don’t know if they’re still in existence) trees at Lynn Grove KY,west of Murray(Wortham) and Mt. Vernon IN, near Evansville(Hausmann) that produce large thin-shelled nuts identical to Mahan. Larry Grauke has seen nuts of both and said that they’re Mahan, but I don’t know that anyone has done genetic analysis to prove it.


#385

We think they’re Stuart and not seedlings but can’t say with certainty.

Dax


#386

Stuart is notorious for producing seedlings that do not look like Stuart. My dad got suckered into buying some “Stuart” trees 50 years ago. They were seedlings and totally not worth growing. One of the unique things about Stuart is how few seedlings are recognized as good pecans. This is amazing considering the total number of Stuart trees growing today.


#387

Worth getting scionwood in my opinion.

Dax


#388

Just talked to Fred and he thought they were seedlings of Stuart.

I’ll grow Hark and either Mullahy or Kanza and be done with it.

Dax


#389

Dax, the varieties I show as most likely to grow in your climate are Lucas, Warren 346, Hark, Mullahy, Kanza, and possibly Shepherd and Oswego. How many of these do you have growing?


#390

Gary Fernald has a huge Lucas and of course he found Mullahy right near here. Fernald has very nice Kanza’s (two). And And in front of Gary’s city home he has a triple trunk: Hark, Shepherd, and Mullahy. Gary also has a lake property where the Kanza’s are and a forest property where all kinds of other things are including that huge Lucas. He has other 60’ tall pecans like Gibson; Many of the OC-cultivars and a few of the NC-cultivars; And everytime we go for a walk in his woods it seems he shows me another giant pecan he grafted 30-40 years ago.

You may as well count that he has a lot of cultivars.

Warren 346 will grow in Wisconsin. Gary has a tree that’ll probably fruit this year and he’s waiting to confirm it’s Warren 346 when he sees some nuts. Years ago he had one or a few nuts and he didn’t think they looked like Warren 346.

Like I say, we have hopes for Kanza. They’ve just begun bearing the past two-years. The handful of nuts only that Gary has gotten are completely filled and have increased in size.

Dumbell Lake were found right here by Gary. You can add that. There’s two of them. ‘Dumbell Lake small’ is the larger nut. ‘Dumbell Lake large’ is the smaller nut. When Gary named the pair he was trying to keep it simple by using the size of the tree as a reference for each, but, little did he know it would end up confusing everyone else. I think Gary’s found others. Definitely the OC-cultivars as O’Connell Island is right across the river. He and Totten and Grimo and the late John Gordon did a lot of hunting around over there as well as all up and down the Mississippi River in a direct line from my home (New Boston, IL) and south of (all the way into MO.)

Dax


#391

I have some questions about rootstock. I cannot locate fusions comments on rootstock since this thread has grown so much. For my area Elliot seedlings seem to be the best choice. What about northern and ultra far northern areas? Bill Reid has commented on using Giles and Kanza seedlings. Are these adequate for ultra far northern areas? I’ve also heard of using Major seedlings. Where can one source Kanza, Major, and/or Giles pecan SEED? I’m looking to plant my own for potted culture.


#392

We use Mullahy and Hark.

My buddy has seed of Mullahy (larger than grown up here) because it was grown and bought from Shepherd Pecan Farm in Missouri. He’s selling it by the pound. It’s stratified and ready to go.

I don’t know but I suppose there’s 80 to a pound. Want some? It’s been pollinated by northern culitvars. Will work great for you.

I thought this was a message, regardless… Kanza, Major, (I don’t know Giles) are more than adequate for northern & ultra northern areas.

Dax


#393

Anyone wanting Mullahy seed PM me and I’ll give you my buddy’s contact information. It’s stratified and ready to be shipped after 3-5 days from now. I ordered priority bubble envelopes to be shipped to him. He’ll double up the bubble envelopes and up to 4 lbs. will fit. 10$ per pound with an 8$ shipping charge. Here are examples of the seed Mullahy pecans:

For amounts more than that, he’ll have to get a price to you.

Dax


#394

How filled is the shell. Bill Reid has mentioned poorly filled nuts are slow to get started.


#395

Completely. These came from a giant operation with pecan cultivars of many.

Dax


#396

Here are three at random.

Dax


#397

They look great Dax!


#398

I will do a little research. I’ve noticed my Major and Oswego pecans (planted this past fall) are my only two trees that haven’t broken dormancy. I wonder if this is from lack of chill hours. My fear is these far northern pecans do not like our limited chill hours. If this is the case then I may need to go with Kanza seedlings in order to prolong my growing season.


#399

@Fusion_power would be the one to know. I don’t.

Shepherd grows, Pawnee, Shepherd, Elliot, Oswego or another “O-named” cultivar. He has Kanza grafted and Hark on some trees reaching 8-10 feet for Kanza. Hark’s are shorter. I know he had about eight main cultivars that would contribute pollen.

Best,

Dax


#400

Riverside and Apache are used as rootstocks in the southwest. Curtis and Elliott are used in the southeast though in my opinion, both have shortcomings as rootstocks. Stuart is used as a general purpose rootstock capable of good performance through northern KY and similar climates. I’ve read a few negative comments re using Kanza as a rootstock. Most were along the lines of highly variable seedling growth. Kanza almost never self-pollinates which is highly in favor of using it as a rootstock. Major has been widely used for northern regions and Lucas has been recommended for ultra-northern plantings.

L.J. Grauke wrote this re rootstocks: http://sepga.com/Presentation/WEB2010pres/LJ_Grauke.pdf

The single biggest issue facing pecan rootstocks is nematodes. So far there is very little evidence of nematode resistance in the pecan genome. I found a single reference to a nematode resistant rootstock from Womack. Close investigation suggests it has very limited resistance. L.J. Grauke published some material about nematode trials that is worth digging up if you want more info. Check the pollination spreadsheet to find varieties that rarely self pollinate. Amling and Kanza are two that look like possibilities.

Long term, I think there is a lot of potential for pecan crosses with C. Myristiciformis and/or C. Aquatica to find nematode resistance and gain a boost of hybrid vigor. I have about 25 hican nuts that are stratified and will be planted in a few days. If they turn out to be what I think they are, they have decent potential as rootstock on a wet area of my land.

One thing Grauke stated is that a pecan grower should cull the weaker and slower growing seedlings. “Cull poor quality seed to improve stand uniformity. Since self pollinated seed has lower fill, culling seed further reduces selfed seed, increasing the vigor of the stand. Rogue out the smaller seedlings from nursery rows. Since self pollinated seedlings have lower vigor, culling smaller seedlings is the final step to ensure maximum heterosis and vigor due to outcrossed seed.”

On a different tangent, we had a frost a couple of days ago. Temperature dropped to about 29 degrees. A few pecan trees had budded far enough to expose leaf tips and some catkins. The trees that had budded furthest show significant damage that will take time to recover from. I have not been out on my land in a few days so have not checked the varieties there. Here at the house, Adams #5 and Amling show excellent performance. Buds on both are slightly expanded but not opened and have little or no damage. Buds on several seedling trees were opened and have damage from slight to severe. Zinner was partially expanded and has dead leaf tips though the buds are not hurt. A couple of mockernut hickory trees in my yard had growing tips up to 6 inches long. About 10% of the growing tips are dead and most of the catkins are brown and crumbly.

I just compiled a list of pecan varieties that are unlikely to self-pollinate. This suggests some of these may be useful as rootstocks. “Amling, Byrd, Cunard, Hark, Headquarters, Huffman, Ideal, Kanza, Kiowa, Lakota, Maramec, Moneymaker, Norton, Pawnee, Posey, Sioux, Tanner, Tom, Carter, Grabohls, Oklahoma, and Teche” From that list, Amling, Huffman, Kanza, Lakota, and Posey have pretty good scab resistance. I think Adams #5 will also fit in this category though I do not have pollination data on it yet.


#401

What effect does sunshine have on pecan maturity dates if any?

I have virtually no clouds from mid to late June until late September or early October. This of course lets the nights cool off more than may be optimal for pecans.


#402

I don’t know with certainty what effect either full sun every summer day or cold nights all summer would have on pecans. Looking at your location on google maps suggests you have a maritime zone 8. I’ll make a guess that the extra hours of sunshine would be heavily countered by cold temps at night.

I’ll take a page out of the book from selling tomato plants for a lot of years. When dealing with a cool maritime climate, it is best to find short season rapid growing varieties. Pecans take 150 days (5 months) to 270 days (9 months) to mature. Mean maturity runs in the range of 6.5 months. This coincidentally is the maturity of Stuart which is the most widely planted variety of the last 100 years. With that as a starting point, I ran a data analysis on the pollination spreadsheet. Here in order of probability to mature nuts is a list that should reflect what will mature nuts in your climate. At the top of the list would be small short season varieties. Toward the bottom of the list would be stretching your climate. I suspect Adams #5 is the longest season variety you could grow and mature consistently. How does this list compare with the varieties you have growing?

Warren 346
Eclipse (I’m surprised Eclipse is this high in the list. Maybe you should look at getting scionwood)
Lucas
Mullahy
Osage
Starking Hardy Giant
Pawnee
Posey
Hark
Major
Kanza
Lakota
Oswego
Adams #5
Apalachee
Caddo
Excel
Amling
Oconee

Note re Eclipse: I picked up Eclipse nuts in late October at E.V. Smith research farm. Kanza had dropped 80% of nuts at the time while Eclipse had dropped less than 30%. This makes me suspect Bill Goff’s maturity date for Eclipse is off a bit. I am using the date Bill provided. http://www.alabamapecangrowers.com/cultivars.html