When we moved out of our old place I took a root shoot from my persimmon tree and scions. I planted the rootstock in the ground and it looks alive now(scratch test) but completely dormant. I discovered that I planted it too close to my garden and want to replant it. So I got an idea, if I anyway going to dig it out, should I just plant it in the pot and bench graft it? I know you should graft the persimmon when it is already leafed out. Does the same comes to bench graft? Do I have a better chance to success if I do a bench graft vs field graft? If so, what condition should I keep my tree after grafting? I can do 40F, 50F, 65F and may be even 72F but the light will not be that great.
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You can graft it later when it’s 70’s weather. Then mid-Summer use a spade shovel and go around the seedling in 6 or 8 places and drive it deep to snip the roots. That will encourage fibrous branching for when you dig it up later to move it.
Fall is when most-folks that severe the roots will replant/transplant a tree such as your situation, Galina.
Dax
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I don’t think there are many roots there… I planted it last fall only and it was a piece of root about 5 inches long with a double shoot that came up last summer. The underground portion of the soot had just few hair roots, so I don’t think it grew much from September. So it shouldn’t be a problem to transplant it into the pot. The question is, will I have more chances for success in bench grafting or not…
70’s temps & lots of sunshine or artificial light. w/o light grafts peter out and fail.
you need to work more on creating roots which is the reason I wrote. Start hitting it as soon as it wakes up in 6 to 8 places around it and try to get some fibrous roots started.
Ultimately you will probably dig it up I see. That’s just the same.
A cheap persimmon tree and toss that sucker away is the better answer/response.
I’m trying to help explain that w/o roots on persimmons they’re 99% worthless unless the sucker traveled away from the tree it shot from and is connected to it. Otherwise the transplant #'s are super low, Galina.
It’s all about temperature and a lot of light and that’s if your sucker moved last Fall is even worth a damn. It may look alive now but they don’t got roots and it’ll probably die this summer. I don’t know lady friend.
Dax
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Now I got what you saying… So problem is that that sucker is not going to live… Well… I guess I do not loose much to try then. I will keep it in pot and if I see it is dying, I will buy a new tree… Or just skip on it…
Good stuff Galina.
If you have a root pruning pot use that so that and you will get a more fibrous root system, as Dax advises, during this growing season in that type of pot designed for that purpose. Some local nurseries sell them. You will need to protect it from freezing next winter then dig it up for bench grafting.
I have that pot, thanks… But unfortunately, Dax was right. I dug up my root - it is in fact not 5 inches, more like 13’'. And it lost its hair-like roots that was there in fall. So first, it doesn’t fit the pot and second, I don’t think it will survive grafting. The idea was to replicate the tree I had before. And with poor root stock I do not have anything to graft scion on and it can’t wait another year… So root goes out… New order in.
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OK, got the toss part done, now about a new tree. The tree I need is Ichi Ki Kei Jiro. I do not want to buy just rootstock if it is that difficult to graft. I can get 4’‘X4’‘X10’’ deep pot from Stark’s(hate to buy from them in general) for $74+ $19 shipping or 7 gallon pot and 3-4 foot long tree from plantmegreen for $99 + $15 shipping. There rest of the places all sold out. The question is, does difference in size and the seller is big enough to cost $21. And is a bigger tree better than a small one.
@galinas –
Two things –
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If you decide to graft IKKJ yourself, I can send you scions. I expect to finish up my pruning in the next few days. So speak now …
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My approach to starting new trees isa very close to what you envision. I buy bear-root trees (but a transplanted root sucker would be fine if it survives). I pot the trees then grow them out for a year. Then in Feb / March I bring the potted dormant trees indoors under lights. The trees bark bud in ~ 2 weeks. Once the leaves are well developed, I cut it all off and bench graft scions to the central leader, which is typically ~1/4" thick. This is ~75% successful, which I think is about as good as one can expect.
What you probably can’t do (reliably) is bench graft scions to a dormant / not well growing rootstock, as we would with apples or pears. So whether you graft IKKJ this year would seem to depend on whether you can acquire a potted DV seedling that will leaf out soon after you receive it.
One thing I’ve learn buying bare-root seedling DV trees is that it can take up to 3-4 months before the potted trees leafs out. Some @ 1 month, but some as long as 3-4 months.
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Thanks, but I have scion… it is rootstock that didn’t do well… I ordered new tree already. I am impatient, and do not have much grafting experience… So the new tree will be a correct answer.
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3-4 foot. Bury the graft union 1’ deep. Find it and bury it. The tree will not wobble in the future and hardiness increases 10fold.
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I am cautious to apply this strategy, isn’t this still experimental? Is there any downside? Like Ukrainians say the virginiana rootstock handles the temp extremes and snow better, so graft high. Hybrids might not handle the wet weather at ground level so well and rot or split. Something like this was mentioned.
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@galinas … i bought IKKJ from starks… yes it was expensive but was the only place i could find one.
Below is what mine looked like. I just planted it recently.
I was happy with the tree… but yes agree price is high. This was by far my most expensive fruit tree purchase this year and ever.
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I ended up buying it from plantmegreen. I didn’t realize that 4X4 pot can house such long tree.
@TNHunter That is a pretty nice tree from them. My neighbor got a IKKJ from them about 5 years back and it was only about 10" tall.
It did transplant well since it was a potted tree and is now about 12 feet tall and has grown a small crop of fruit the last two years that the squirrels steal every one of before they’re even halfway grown. Given your name and experience, I expect you would take care of those squirrels so shouldn’t have the same issue.
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