It’s a pretty high graft, ~20".
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Your Saijo results seem very inconsistent with some dying back to the ground and some surviving with no injury? We are 6B and lost all Saijo, all were low grafted though. Interesting observations, I might try grafting Saijo with a ladder next time!
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Nice inventory of persimmons for trials. Did you buy all the persimmon trees or you grafted yourself? I thought I finally found JT-02 that could withstand my Z5. It survived to -23F then come the Polar Vortex that brought the temp down to -31F and killed 20 of my JT-02. Only 2 survived. I potted them up this year and I will plant them at my new house and bury the graft union below ground level for insurance to resprout if the -31F comes to town again.
Tony
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Great report Tim!
I could have used the exact words of this paragraph to describe the last winter at my new property in Sandy Hook, CT! Hence, your notes are perfectly relevant for me…
This is very good news for me, as I am interested in this variety!
Did you mean to say “Sheltered, except from a bit of wind” ?
This is also good news, as I already have a Tam Kam, which I just put in ground, but was thinking of protecting it the next couple of winters.
By the way, what is the difference between these two Tam Kam trees?
Same here, I got two trees from Cliff last year and the graft union was pretty high, close to 2.5-3’ high, but he didn’t give me a good reason for that when I inquired about it, he just said that I can’t plant a persimmon tree too deep, and the deeper the better.
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This is too cool. I’m zone 6a, so there is no need to bother dealing with Asian Persimmons here.
I have a follow up question that is more relevant to me and others too, perhaps.
Do you have a general ripening order of your American varieties and also jt-02 and Kasandra?
Appreciate your time!
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Our Saijo kicked the bucket, too—dead to the (low) graft, in a semi-protected area on a southern slope. (EDIT: This is 6b Kentucky.) It grew beautifully last season (its second one here), showed no signs of sickness—and the winter lows weren’t too bad: I think we got down to 2 or 3F once, but that was the worst of it. I’m getting ready to try reworking the virginiana rootstock over to JT-02.
Ichi-ki-kei-jiro in the same location did fine: no damage and is now waking up. A little higher graft than Saijo—maybe 10" or so. Nikita’s Gift and Rosseyanka, in a more exposed location, also look good. They took some damage last year–Nikita in particular—but from a late spring freeze and not winter. Fortunately, the spring freezes weren’t too bad this year. My Rosseyanka has had some leaf and stem anthracnose that I think may have been aggravated by late freeze damage. I sprayed oil and copper—dormant and delayed dormant—this spring, so we’ll see how that goes this time.
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One possibility – Research on persimmon hardiness shows that trees are much more hardy when deeply dormant (e.g., Jan) than when starting to wake up (e.g., March). A southern slope – facing the sun – could encourage early emergence, making the tree especially vulnerable. The ideal location for a sensitive (maybe early emerging) variety such as Saiyo would be a Northern slope that is sheltered from the low winter sun but exposed to the high spring / summer sun.
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Good to know! I have one that I’m putting in this year, though it’s a relatively low graft. I’ve heard good things about it, so it’s good to have input from a fellow Pennsylvanian!
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Agreed, the results are very inconsistent. The main differences seem to boil down to the high graft and the amount of wind exposure. I will probably allow the low grafts to die, then re-graft high onto root sprouts.
Agreed. My working theory is that the higher graft on a hardier stock causes the plant to go into deep dormancy sooner than it otherwise would and/or delays the waking up period until later. It’s interesting to see the differences between seedling virginiana rootstocks, even when planted side by side. It would be interesting to have a seedling source of stocks that were very late to leaf out.
We have a similar situation with sugar maples we planted on our property. Some are relatively early to push out, others are just now swelling buds. Because we’ve been so prone to late frosts/freezes, delayed break from dormancy is really important to me.
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No ripening info just yet. Hopefully in the next couple of years. I do have some information on which varieties are earliest versus latest to push out in the spring. That’s really important for us because of the tendency to have late frosts/freezes. In our experience, most persimmons don’t do well with a late frost after they’ve passed a certain phenological stage.
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Yes, it’s interesting to see which do well in our marginal climate. There are a handful of pure Asian varieties that I have high hopes for but the hybrids are a much surer long-term bet here.
I’m not sure of the difference between the Tam Kams. I got them both from Cliff and while they set some fruit last year, I believe they dropped all of it.
I corrected the “sheltered” terminology that you mentioned, sorry for the confusion.
I’ve talked to Cliff about high grafts as well. I gather that he’s primarily concerned with the survival of the trees themselves, so I think that’s why he advocates low grafts: in order to preserve the variety in the case of a catastrophic freeze event. However, high grafts, in my limited experience, do seem to overwinter better in a “normal” winter and the delayed dormancy break seems to be helpful in our temperamental springs.
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Thanks for the reply! Do you have a favorite or maybe top 3 Americans that you like best? Sorry for hijacking your hardiness thread. It’s just rare to see someone have so many cultivars.
Thank you!
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How did the 20th Century and Mazugata do or did you not plant them yet?
Just planted them this afternoon actually! 20th century up against our barn, Mazugata out in the field. Will let you know how they do.
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Prairie Dawn (H55A) was my favorite tasting American persimmon last year. I’ve tried fairly few, so certainly that that with a grain of salt, but I’ve heard of similar results from others. It just has a different sort of flavor and ripens pretty early from what I remember.
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20th century could be a good one for you, it survived 50 years at the Wye plantation in eastern Maryland and it is one of the latest to leaf out. It is just starting to pop buds now for me whereas all the other Asians have some full leaves.
I grew Mazugata for 10-15 years, it was great until it died one winter. I had it on virginiana.
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H 55 A is Prairie Dawn. Cliff England doesn’t think much of its Taste. Who else has tasted it?
Thanks for reporting your observations. I’ve been growing Great wall for 3 years on a southern slope protected behind my house. No damage so far just outside of Louisville Kentucky, but we rarely get below zero anymore and then it might be for one or two nights. Our winters are a far cry from the Ohio river freeze over of the 70s and the heavy snow’s of the 90s.
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