Most of them require a male to fruit. That’s why the named varieties are good. Someone has already removed that from the equation.
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That’s interesting and I had not realized that.
I wonder if Rich Tooie also needs a male to fruit.
Probably. Who knows though because his pics show seeds, meaning he has males nearby.
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@ramv … I currently have…
A couple more Barbara’s blush and a few Rich Tooie in my ripening chamber… under glass.
In a few days will get to compare them side by side.
I ate both of those today but a couple hours apart… and they seemed pretty similar on flavor…
I have to distinguish between base flavor (only) vs base flavor + aftertaste…
In the fall of 2022 and 2023… Rich Tooie had that same base flavor I tasted today… more of a butter scotch/rum cake type flavor… but also had a very rich aftertaste of caramel.
In those years… absolutely the best persimmon I have ever had (including all I have tasted to date).
I have tasted 100-46 and H118 at Englands Orchard… but did not get to taste H63A there… all those were gone already when we were there last year.
The only H63As I have tasted are first year fruit from my tree (which is in year 2). They tasted very similar to me … of 100-46 and H118.
In those I did not taste any real rich flavor… nothing like butterscotch, rum cake, vanilla caramel… they were more fruity, apricot like. Good but different than what I was used to in southern persimmons.
When I tasted Barbara’s blush today… I was expecting another similar to H63A, H118, 100-46… but was suprised to find it tasted more similar to Rich Tooie (base flavor).
The Rich Tooie I ate today… were like last years fruit… that rich base flavor only. They did not have that extra rich caramel like aftertaste. They were early fruit… perhaps into October that improves.
I am not sure what makes some persimmons have extra flavors in some years… but Rich Tooie and Persimonilla have both done that.
Persimonilla… year before last had an extra rich aftertaste of vanilla… which was just outstanding. One out of 4 years so far.
Cliff says that Journey has taste of vanilla… and mine may produce fruit next year… hope so. Love that taste in a persimmon.
I will let you all know how it goes with the side by side taste test of BB and RT when that happens.
TNHunter
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Getting some overlap in ripening as my American persimmons are finishing up just as my hybrids and kakis are starting to ripen. From left to right: Chinebuli (kaki), Zima Khurma (hybrid), Sestronka (hybrid), Kasandra (hybrid), Barbra’s Blush (American), Early Golden (American)
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I’ve been growing Zima Khurma for about 10 years now and this is the first time I’ve had fruit fully ripen. It has dropped a lot of fruit in past years. I was surprised at how big the fruit are (though that could be because there are only 4 fruit that didn’t drop on a large tree).
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This year I had fruit to set and hold on 4 persimmon trees.
H63A (In year 2)
Barbara’s Blush (in year 3)
IKKJiro (in year 3)
Kasandra (in year 3).
The way they are listed above appears to be the ripening order for those 4 varieties at my location.
H63A ripened first fruit Aug 20… and last fruits Sept 20.
Barbara’s Blush ripened first fruits Sept 16 and at this point… Sept 25…there is still one mostly green fruit on the tree and the rest have ripened.
IKKJiro ripened first fruit (very soft ripe) Sept 23, another orange and a little soft Sept 24… and 20 or so fruit remain on the tree… most are either completely or partially orange at this point but still firm.
Kasandra has not ripened any fruit yet as of Sept 25 but most of the fruit is showing color… at least partially to near fully orange and still firm.
These 4 persimmon trees appear to be good choices to start and keep the persimmon harvest going for several weeks.
When my Cardinal (asian) starts producing… it is supposed to be a couple weeks earlier than IKKJiro.
When my Journey (hybrid) starts producing… I expect it will be my first to ripen (as it is for Cliff at Englands Orchard). It may ripen first fruits late July, Early August here in southern TN.
TNHunter
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Did you taste Zima? Any thoughts on how it compares to others? I have a nice graft growing, but it will be a year or 2 before I get fruit. I’ve seen a lot people really like and note that it has a lot cinnamon in the flavor and who doesn’t love cinnamon?
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Found a semi local person selling Journey - haven’t really seen a ton about it so maybe not the best but should pair well with my IKKJ and Saijo, I think. I will likely just plant the american persimmon rootstock and let it go to town, and then keep it about 10’ tall, we’ll see how it compares.
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@zendog I did taste Zima Khurma, and my initial impression based on the first two fruits is that it tastes more like a kaki than some of the other hybrids. I didn’t notice any cinnamon flavor. I should mention that a lot of my kakis are ripening earlier this year because they have been splitting right under the calyx, and that was the case with these two ZK fruits as well. We had some dry weather followed by a bunch of rain just as these fruits were starting to ripen, so I think that might have caused the splitting. I haven’t noticed that kind of splitting right where the calyx is connected to the fruit before. ZK’s fruit color and texture are both very nice, and the big size made me wonder if I really have ZK and it isn’t a mislabeled kaki. But I think it’s a hybrid because the fruit have what look like viable seeds (though smaller seeds than most of my other hybrids) and wouldn’t have likely been pollinated by another kaki based on where this tree is growing and how far it is from my potential kaki pollinators. At this point, I still prefer the Sestronka for flavor, texture and productivity (I almost topworked this ZK tree because it hadn’t fruited in so long and was so prone to dropping any fruit that set, while I can’t remember Sestronka ever dropping any significant number of fruit and being precocious in bearing fruit). I will reserve judgment on the ZK fruit, though, until I get quite a few more of them. Lots of persimmons of all types haven’t impressed me much the first time I tasted the fruit from a young tree and improved a lot in subsequent seasons. The tree has large glossy leaves and a low, spreading/weeping form that matches descriptions for ZK. I got my original scionwood from Cliff England, so I have more confidence in what he sends me than most of the nurseries I’ve ordered from.
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you can look in this Video and compare your ZK fruit to his fruit to see it is true ZK.
Tony
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Here is what I have for Zima Khurma (NB-02) right or wrong.
Scion source @RUenvsci in ‘21
Pic’s from last year.
NB-02 left, NB or (Nakita’s Gift) right
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Not yet.
Just beginning to turn.
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Interesting. Your zima looks like my sestronka and vice versa.
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@RUenvsci thanks for telling me that. Do you have pictures of your Sestronka that you could share (tree and/or fruit)? What I thought was Sestronka looks a lot more like Zima Khurma in the video that @tonyOmahaz5 shared, and it matches Cliff England’s descriptions better in that Sestronka is supposed to have fruit of comparable size or larger than D. kaki:
Zima khurma =NB-02 Persimmon bred out of Nikitskaya Bordovaya, cold hardy and good producer of orange medium to large size fruit that ripens Late-season on a semi-vigorous tree. Has low spreading growth habit and is a beautiful specimen in the fall. Trees are very cold hardy tested down to minus -16.4 F for a long time. This cultivar was bred in Japan and brought to America by Jerry Lehman of Terre Haute, Indiana. Zone 5b to ZONE 8, tested to -16 F.
Sestronka / NB-21 Hybrid – Developed by Jerry Lehman of Terre Haute IN. Fruit is very large as large as the Pure Kaki but oh so much tastier and larger than average pure Kaki fruit, is reddish with thin skin does not fall from the tree trees are small and not very vigorous, it is a seedling of Nikitskaya Bordovaya crossed back to Virginiana. Breeding and embryo rescue was performed in Japan to bring this cultivar to the world, is not any more cold hardier than pure kaki persimmon.
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I’ll post a picture later today. My sestronka, though, has been a disappointment. Every year, I get one, two, or zero fruit. But when it does fruit, they are large and meet Cliff’s description. Thinking of cutting that tree down and grafting a new one in a place where I don’t expect production, like at the street curb….
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That also sounds like what I thought was ZK but is probably Sestronka - 4 fruit after 10 years of nothing is a very disappointing yield. People complain about Nikita’s Gift dropping a lot of immature fruit, but that’s nothing compared to this tree.
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I posted this earlier but is starting to color more now. My 3 hefty Sestronka on a little 4-foot tall tree. If is being precocious for the variety, perhaps it is because it was in a 5 gallon pot until I planted it this spring.
My source was @PharmerDrewee
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