I have no idea how Gurneys is producing the trees. However, persimmons can be grown from tissue cultures and is a rabbit hole I’ve gone down as I find it very interesting. I found a youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/@plantsinjars that is great for hobby level. You can look for tissue culture and/or micropropagation of persimmons and find research and protocols on how to do it. For example: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233769686_In_Vitro_Propagation_of_Persimmon_Diospyros_kaki_Thunb
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I don’t think it is a cutting. There are not any identifiable cut marks or growth points. I think they tissue-cultured them and stuck them in peat pellets, as evidenced by the remaining ones I found while potting up.
I was also able to separate a sucker from one, and now have 3 instead of 2 plants.
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You can’t see the entire tree in the pic, but many persimmon are done with bud grafts.
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The Cardinal asian I got from OGW a couple springs ago was tiny.
That looks like a bud graft to me.
TNHunter
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Yea my initial assumption was cuttings; Based on what we know now it’s very likely tissue culture.
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I wonder if they will take longer to produce vs a grafted tree. I have heard that is the case sometimes with TC mulberry and figs.
I’ve never heard of TC persimmon trees. It is likely just a grafted tree and the rootstock is suckering which is super common with persimmons.
If it is actually a TC it will take forever to fruit.
No longer than a seedling takes to fruit
With figs we get angry because they should fruit the first couple years if it’s a cutting instead of like the five years it takes for a fig seedling. With persimmons I don’t think it’ll matter too much compared to a tiny grafted or budded tree
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I will post a picture of the whole trees so you guys believe me lol. I have 5 of them now, since I ordered the 2 for 1 twice. None of them have grafting lines or cutting growth points. All of them have the peat pellet. It is indistinguishable from a seedling tree, but I doubt they are selling seedlings. They are not Ty Ty…
As for the time to fruit, I think they are fairly precocious, besides the fact that I’d rather wait another year if it means having unlimited true to type suckers to propogate on one of the best persimmons out there!
Edited: here is a tree. As you can see, there is no distinguished graft
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Proving it was not a fluke, here’s another Saijo from my potted tree. I pickled it yesterday because it seemed soft; left it inside for a day. By then it was fully ripe.
Again, it was delicious. My wife pointed out that the skin is tough; if that prevents splitting or deters insects, I’m OK with it. And we don’t have to eat the skin.
There were two seeds, thanks to nearby male-flowering trees such as Nashimura Wase. I didn’t find them a bother.
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@jrd51 … that is a pretty persimmon. Cant wait until I get some of those. I hope mine remain seedless but a few seeds is not that bad to me. My wife definately prefers seedless.
Color wise… it did not look fully ripe to me… but sounds like it was.
My IKKJ and Kasandra change from orange to a reddish tint when they have softened up and are super flavorful. Jelly/jam like inside.
That reddish tint on kasandra seems to also mean astringency has ended.
I have eaten 3 so far with reddish tint and no astringency at all.
In the 2021 Persimmon thread… this is what (thecitymans) Saijo looked like when harvested. He said they will change from orange, firm, with the classic Saijo ridges visible on the fruit… to red, soft, delicious and non astringent… and once soft those ridges on the fruit dissappear.
Your fruit looked excellent inside… even though the skin was mostly still orange.
So far for me… that red tint… is a sure sign that IKKJ and Kasandra are really ready and max flavor. I bet that will work for Saijo here once mine starts producing.
Ps… on persimmon skins. I dont eat the skins… I have had part of my colon removed twice and best I remember that increases the likelyhood of persimmon skins causing you problems.
TNHunter
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The color gave me pause too. I ended up eating it because it was soft all over.
I’ve read that temperature, sunshine, and water can all affect color development in the skin. So maybe one of those had an impact. Also, this is my third crop and I’ve never had a deep red on Saijo here; I have no idea why.
For me the acid test is astringency, and there was none. And softness – the flesh was soft throughout. I thought about leaving it longer but while I could imagine the fruit getting softer, I didn’t think. it would turn redder.
But I agree with your observations about IKKJ and Kasandra. They get a bright red-orange here when fully ripe. You can see hundreds of mine from last year in the thread on ripening.
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what are you doing for winter protection of your potted trees? treating them similar to figs?
None of my Saijos have gotten a red color once they were soft to eat. Maybe if I waited longer, but I don’t want them super soft to eat.
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Yes, with a note: I have figs in both an attached garage that is generally 35-50 F all winter and a detached garage that is generally 20-40 F but has been as low as 15-17 F. I keep my best figs in the attached garage. I put the overflow in the detached garage. As persimmons are hardier than figs, I also keep the potted persimmons in the colder detached garage.
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Hahaha! I hope eating under developed seeds are harmless because that is what I do! Lol
Just got a few more scion slaves, I mean persimmon trees. Rockbridge ships a great tree and they use root-pruning bags. Highly recommend after this experience, though they were out of Sofie’s gift.
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oo good news. I’m planning on getting my persimmon from them right now
Also my sunchokes from them should be hsipping soon. they have a great amount of varieties.
Got a chance to pick up some persimmons from Charlie West in Branchburg, NJ. He let me ask him a few questions about some of the varieties, and I found it interesting that he said his Deer Magnet fully ripens for him. I guess that means, even though it is a late variety, it is still able to mature in time here in Northern NJ.
I have had persimmons before, but I never bothered to find out what kind, or they were wild ones I foraged. I thought that each of the varieties were fairly distinct, but still had a strong “Persimmon” flavor to them.
Prok- Brown sugar is the best I can describe it. It had a little bit of dried fruit flavor, but it was the least complex of the three. Now, most people describe it as mild, but I wouldn’t say that. The persimmon flavor is still very strong, like 4-5x that of an asian persimmon from the store. These were the largest and had more of an acorn shape. They were also firm, and none of them had astringency issues.
Prarie Sun/ Claypool A-33- Rum and clove with general pumpkin spice. These have a wonderful woody, earthiness to them, like aged rum or bourbon. I can see how this flavor profile can be described as “Rum- Raisin”, but these did not have the dried fruit flavor that Prok or some of the wilds have, much stronger on the pumpkin. These are extremely complex, and have a flavor that changes as it lingers. These were flat and a bit smaller than Prok, with some having astringency, but most were firm and non-astringent. My favorite of the three.
The last was an “unnamed” variety. He said it was U-33, but I was not able to find any information on it. I believe it is truly “unnamed”
The flavor on this one is fruity, like dried apricots or yellow plums, along with the spiciness and pumpkin flavors to a lesser degree and the earthiness. Fruitiness definitely dominated the flavor profile, though. It’s flavor was also complex and develops while eating, as when the fruitiness fades, the woody and earthy flavors start to come more to the forefront, like an apricot cocktail with some whiskey. This one had the most astringency issues and the second one I had turned my mouth awry with much torment before I even finished a tester bite on a slice. These can’t be eaten when firm. Even the ripened ones still have a bit of the dry on them, so it would not be one I would grow, despite it’s delicious flavor. These were even more of an acorn shape, but smaller than prok.
I am trying to build a flavor profile web for persimmons, much like the ones floating around for Figs. I think so far there is dried fruit, rum, apricot/fruity, brown sugar, pumpkin, various spices, barrel aged etc. not sure if anyone else has tasted other flavors, I have not had much experience to be honest.
Left to right: Prok, Prarie Sun, unnamed.
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i’m going tomorrow im so excited and this just HYPED ME UP MORE but yes something like fig database or pomiferous for persimmon would be magical
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