Sometimes they just take a long time to wake up. And it’s not always consistent which trees get going sooner. Persimmons are much less predictable than most other fruits.
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I lost a few too but I still not sure what it was, we had a late frost that stayed for about 3 hours and anything above the ground till about 3 feet got damaged.
But the trees that didn’t make it they were about 6 feet tall and all of a sudden they started to defoliate.
I put fertilizer in early spring 10-10-10 could this be the reason?
For those of you that have multiplied rows of persimmons what spacing do you use? Anybody known the spacing on Lehman and Compton for plantings? This will be my last shot at planting dv seeds
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I grafted to wild dv this weekend. What is the average time that most of you see for bud break?
Depends on temp, rootstock (genetics and where they are in the “waking up” process), variety, and random factors. Some of mine have bud break within a few days, but it could be as long as 2 months. Most are within 15 days.
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I can get bud break on an ungrafted scion sitting in a bag on a warm shelf, so I wouldn’t take bud break per se to be proof of success. I’ve read that callus formation on persimmons takes 2-3 weeks, given warm temps. That’s a prerequisite for a successful graft.
So I wouldn’t count any chickens for at least 2 weeks. In your zone, maybe longer especially if nights are still cold.
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I reside in zip code 17036. Looks like in January we hit a low of -7.
I find that the bud will often start to break (just enough to break the parafilm) pretty early in callus formation, maybe 2-3 days. Usually, it stalls out until callus finishes forming, at which point it takes off. 90% of the time, if I’m seeing green and steady (not necessarily fast) growth, I’ve got a positive take.
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Thanks. My hypothetical drop dead line for Chocolate is +5 F, so this isn’t surprising. My guess may be too conservative, but we do get down to -5 to -7 F occasionally (e.g., Feb '23) so based on your result I’ll leave Chocolate in its pot.
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I just grafted possibly bad (not viable) cuttings (American on American rootstock). Can I allow rootstock sprouts to grow until I see if cuttings take? That way can re-graft same tree next year if cuttings failed. I assume rootstock sprouts won’t prevent the graft from taking? I know sprouts can prevent it from growing much, but am unclear on simply “taking.”
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I don’t know how comparable Poland is to the Missouri Ozarks, but we experience constant wild temperature swings through winter. Sometimes you’ll get warm temps for weeks before dropping severely for weeks due to a polar vortex. American persimmons and most hybrids handle it as well or better than other trees around here. They are slower to bud out in the spring than most all other trees around here.
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I read somewhere that Claypool (or Lehman) had seedlings on 8 foot centers with 12 feet between rows. That’s what I’m currently using for seedlings, but I’m still in the early stages.
Edited to add in my orchard of grafted varieties most are on 16 foot spacing.
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Persimmons vary in height and spread. For most purposes, about 23 feet between trees will work long term. If planting for breeding evaluation, closer spacing followed by removal of poor quality trees is a good choice.
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it actually had pretty good roots.
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For my planting, I chose 27 feet between rows, and 20 feet between trees down the row. Year three, so I can’t tell you how it works long term.
This decision was made assuming mostly american persimmons without any pruning. I’m now planning to do a lot of hyrbids, with the intent to keep them short via pruning. Considering that, I probably could have tightened the spacing a little bit.
I think the anwser depends on you goals. Are you just trying to mass plant seeds to breed/identify good fruit? Then shove them 6 to 10 feet apart. But if you want a long term planting they need more room that that.
I visited one farm near me with american persimmon planted very close down the rows. I wasn’t measuring back then, but 8ft maybe? Every tree was a telephone pole with the canopy 30 feet up and no branches lower down. The light competition forced them to grow tall and drop their lower branches. Another grower I visited had trees 32 years old with better spacing. Those trees had nice form. Less tall, and wider, retaining branches low that you could harvest from the ground.
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To piggyback off of what @speedengineer just said, goals will play into your spacing a lot. If you plan to cut every single male out, you’re spacing is going to approximately double (I know that seedling sex is more complicated than that, but just for easy math I’m assuming a 50/50 male to female ratio).
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Thanks for the feedback.
The goal was to plant the rows and then graft to cultivars. The target area is about 3/8 an acre and has wild dvs at the lower edge. I would like to keep the new trees small so that I can harvest from the ground for up to 20 years.
I grafted 24 cultivars on wild dv root sprouts over the weekend. Trying to maximize my chances of success
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I’m in 6b and my Chocolate is about 5 years old and had zero dieback without any protection.
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I was 6B now 7A. I’ve never protected my trees but between my neighbors house and my chicken coup they aren’t exactly in the open. Lost a coffee cake a few years but it was on D.Lotus. my chocolate was on D.Virginiana.
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I think my Chocolate is on lotus. Maybe persimmons are just random and unpredictable. I’ve even had a Rossyanka die over the winter once and my new one is fine. I lost NG twice but I’m stubborn, and the third attempt has been pulling through the winters now just fine, even with this past one which was worse. My brother experienced something similar, he planted two NG in the same year in the same spot and one died completely, while the other pulled through fine without dieback.
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