My H118 also dropped nearly all of its fruit after the crazy heat. My Saijo hadn’t set any fruit, but seemed to love the heat. My Nikita’s Gift set its 1st fruit, and its still hanging.
My NOT Izu is loaded, at least the branches that remain after I grafted Izu scions back to it. We’ll see if they are any better this year. Last year I tasted. then pitched them.
John how much seed is in every cultivar you grow? I want to know if any all female trees are being influenced and I’m also curious about how much seed you see in both Early Golden and Szukis?
Then, I’ve never eaten a Garretson? How does it compare with H-118 or Early Goden? Those I know how they taste. Both are excellent. Thanks
My persimmons usually have quite a few seeds. Many enthusiasts and scientists state that seeded persimmons are associated with better quality and larger persimmons. Some have none, some have 2, others have 5. I plant specifically for pollinators, and pollinators love persimmons. I would say that H-118 and Garretson are my favorites, but their taste is very different. Garretson is more distinctive, less rich and with longer lasting overtones. Sorry, I’m not one of those wine snob people who can write very well about these things. Both in my opinion are way better than Early Golden which I like , but isn’t quite as good. Also, H-118 can get snuffed out for that year in really high heat, but it doesn’t seem to affect Garretson. On H-118, the fruit just dies out for that year. I think that the fruit writer Lee Reich considers Garretson to be his favorite.
John S
PDX OR
I like to graft H-118 as bench grafts because 80-90% on pencil thick caliper rootstock will grow flowers that form fruit maybe a cm across which falls off. It’s fun to watch how precocious/prolific H-118 is. Thanks, John
Dax
I purchased 5 persimmon trees from ‘Just Fruits and Exotics Nusery’ in Florida at the end of last year. The robust and healthy looking dormant trees arrived established in soil in 3 gallon pots and were cut back to about 3’ above the soil level. I was very pleased with how large and healthy the trees were for about $45 each. It was another $15 per tree for S and H. Saijo, Giombo, Sheng, Ichi Ki Kei Jiro, and Rosseyanka are all now planted. With about 1,500 growing degee day units in Raymond, WA, I don’t expect much success with fruiting, but still hope for great Fall color. Fruits would definitely be a plus.
Where do you get your growing degree day units number? There seem to be lots of different formulas.
Do you have a map of WA state or a tool in which you can enter a zip code?
Hello Murky, I’ll look up the source and get back to you tomorrow.
Hello Murky,
As you’ve probably seen, there are a lot of GDD calculators on-line. What I used was:
and
I understand that persimmons require 2,000 plus GDD.
This says ideally 2500-2800.
FWIW, my IKKJ produced good fruit. I picked most of them in mid November. Between May 1 and Nov 15 I had 3124 GDD50. I think that if your season is just as long, you could get away with less heat.
This is why, even under cover, persimmon ripening is iffy in Mt. Vernon, WA .
Even in a warm year I am less than 2000GDD!
Oct 1-Nov 31st, base of 50F. ( Growing Degree Days | WSU Viticulture and Enology | Washington State University)
I mentioned 2,000 GDD as a low end for semi-reliable success, but not only are the GDD units here just below 1,500 GDD, it is also near the coast. However, I am somewhat encouraged by the previous posts. I did think about planting them along the South wall of a large, 2-story, 1940’s chicken coup that is on the farm in order to catch more heat. I’ve done that with tomatoes. Perhaps I’ll try planting persimmons there this year.
I’ve used this site in the past
here’s their closest station to mt vernon, their calculation method must be a little different because they have it around 1700 GDD (edit - actually it looks the same, I was looking at the *C scale above)
@WhiteFirFarm – Are you planning American or Asian? If Asian, astringent or non?
As you are worried about ripening, I’d suggest Asian varieties that are (1) early ripening non-astringents (e.g., Izu, Matsumotowase Fuyu, Maekawa Jiro) that can be eaten unripe or ripened indoors; and/or (2) early-ripening astringents that can picked unripe then treated for astringency with CO2 or alcohol (e.g. Saiyo).
I have planted, this year, Saijo, Sheng, Ichikikei Jiro, Giombo, Cardinal, and Raven, and also have Izu. So, it looks like I may have some of the bases covered. Thank you for the suggestions.
LOL – That’s a great selection. I’ve had IKKJ since 2015. Three small trees gave me >300 ripe fruits this year. This year I’m adding a tree of Giboshi but I’ve also got scion wood and DV rootstock for new grafted trees of Saiyo and Sheng. So there’s overlap among our picks.
I have heard of Cardinal but not Raven. Do you have more info? My guess is that they are re-branded Asian varieties. If so, any idea what the synonyms would be?
That’s pretty much exactly the list of Asian persimmons that I have, except my Cardinal didn’t make it. I’m interested to see how yours does. Was it tiny too?
Plus I have some PVNAs, and I’m not sure which Jiro I have if any, it was supposed to be Izu.
@jrd51 Cardinal is trademarked and only offered by One Green World as far as I know. Their description says cv. jo choo, but Google doesn’t find any hits for that.
I think a contributor suggested maybe Soshu? That would be interesting.
Both Cardinal and Raven were from OGW and both were in leaf, but very small when purchased. Nothing like the robust, large plants from Just Fruits and Exotics for $5 more. 1 gallon vs. 3 gallon. I had heard they are patented names, as stated, for existing varieties, but don’t know any details. Raven is supposed to have black fruit. There is a bit more info on the OGW website.
@WhiteFirFarm When they give their own name to an existing cultivar, that’s a trademark rather than a patent.
You are free to propagate trademarked material, you just aren’t free to use its name for gain. So, when your jo choo, or whatever we want to call it, grows enough…
Like you are free to build vacuum cleaners, or facial tissue, but you can’t sell them as Hoover or Kleenex.
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn’t thinking of renaming Cardinal. I was thinking that Cardinal may be a [renamed] release from the Japanese breeding program originally named Soshu. Maybe an alternate transliteration led them to report it as “jo choo.” Or maybe Soshu came to OGW via Korea or China and it was pronounced there more like “jo choo.”
I said it would be interesting because from 5000 feet it seems that Soshu is one of the more promising of the new releases, especially for short-season growers. It is reportedly early and juicy-ripening with no cracking.
