I would like to explore the idea of closely related apple cultivars and whether they can pollinate each other. Wikipedia (I know, not the best source) lists 29 descendants of golden delicious. I’m guessing some might pollinate each other and others not. Can anyone speak to this? Some examples include Cameo (Golden Del x Red Del), Pink Lady (Golden Del x Lady Williams), Gala (Kids Orange x Golden Del), Ginger Gold (Albermarle Pippin x Golden Del), Jonagold (Golden Del x Jonathan), Mutsu (Indo x Golden Del), Opal (Topaz x Golden Del), Rubinette (Golden Del x Cox Orange), among others.
I dont see much information about this topic and would appreciate anything you can share.
The only way to check pollinators is individually Online pollination checker for fruit trees .If you type in golden delicious you will see exactly what apples pollinate it using this website. Typically a tree closely related to another won’t pollinate the related tree. The chart will let you know what you need to. Dont want to go into ploidy or other factors to much now but we have covered it in the past on here. If you look back on old posts i touched on it Understanding Ploidy and Pollination . You might want to also read this thread Parthenocarpic Pears and this one The modernization of flowering pears
Thanks for the links and info. I was already aware of the pollination partner search, but did not realize that related varieties were already removed. I tend to do a fair amount of pollinating of trees and wanted to learn if I was running around trying to pollinate trees with the wrong pollen. It also influences what tree I might put a graft on, other things being equal.
I learned a bit more about triploids, namely the characteristics which can be considered an advantage.
more vigorous growth, larger fruits, large blossom (often very attractive), and large leaves that can be thick, stiff and leathery. Fruit can also have different shapes such as being more rounded, and leaves can have off-centre leaf tips or be partially folded or crimped. Additional triploid features include:
Better disease resistance, due to increased genetic material which may produce stronger defence responses or provide additional resistance genes.
Better tolerance of difficult growing conditions such as increased salinity, due to extra vigour and increased expression of important genes.
Cropping is erratic if not pollinated with diploid varieties as triploids produce very poor pollen. But if this condition can be satisfied then cropping is adequate.
Increased tendencies for fruit disorders such as bitter pit, due to poor seed content of the fruit if not pollinated by diploid varieties.
Yes i think it’s exactly what you asked for. The automated chart is more of a guidelines for what you already know now based on ploidy. As an example Cox Queen is self fertile so people plant it planning to pollinate the orchard but not realizing Cox’s Orange Pippin is related to almost everything. “Queen Cox is a poor pollinator of other apple varieties, partly because many are related to Cox, and partly because its self-fertility seems to reduce the viability of the pollen for cross-pollination.” These traits are the exact opposite of what people think. The Golden delicious you mentioned is grown for it’s pollen specifically in an apple orchard. " It is commonly referred to as the “rooster” tree because it is one of the best pollinators for other varieties." When i look at someones orchard all these facts are running through my head. I’m no expert on apples because i only grow about 20 types and not overly well. Typically i focus on pears because i grow them and leave apples to the apple experts. Apples are a pet project for me. Great questions your asking your on the right path from my perspective.
I really appreciate it! I think about it too when I am out walking around the orchard. It’s probably more than the average person wants to know, but to me knowing why is important.
I have a really big apple ancestry chart. The highlighted parents are golden delicious, Cox’s orange Pippin, Jonathan, McIntosh, and Worcester permain.
This is an interesting topic that I know very little about. I’m looking forward to seeing other posts about it. I try to make up for my lack of knowledge by grafting in several varieties hoping that the correct pollen gets to a good flower match.
I just read this study summary and it says that apples are self pollinating or require cross pollination depending on their genes. Absence or presence of a specific protein affects whether the pollen tube can grow and fertilization occurs. This addresses the “why”.
These results confirm that self-fertility was due to inhibition of expression of the S-RNase gene in the pistil, resulting in un-arrested self-pollen tube growth, and fertilisation.
I also found a site where you can enter the variety of an apple and it will tell all the corresponding fully compatible, semi compatible, and incompatible varieties based on their s genotypes. You must also pick whether the variety is contributing ovule or pollen. Perhaps similar to the orange Pippin compatibility site but based on genotype and more specific. The study is from Japan. Here is the url
From trial and error, if two apples contain the same s genotypes they are incompatible. If they share one in common but have another different one, they are semi compatible. All different s alleles and they are compatible. Triploids are also listed but won’t work in the search as the pollen parent. It does work if they are being pollinated by another variety.
I wish we could add our own. Some familiar varieties are missing. This all makes so much sense to me now.
I just don’t worry about pollination partners. Bees can fly for miles and there are tons of crabapples everywhere. Most locations will have many varieties of crabs within flying distance of bees.
Making sure there are enough bees is much more important than pollination partners.
I’m with you there. Part of me wants to know because I walk around pollinating trees sometimes when the weather isn’t cooperating or when I don’t see any bees. Why not do it right and have a better success rate.
The other part is that I just want to know. Curiosity. I want to understand it well enough that it makes sense to me. That’s probably the bigger reason.
Just keep the Golden Delicious, Grimes Golden, and various crab apple trees nearby and you will be fine. Or, pay attention to the best partners, like Sundance and Pixie Crunch, etc.
