Preparing Scions for Shipping

Interesting about the newsprint.
I like the idea about dividing Ziplocs. I wonder if my Food Saver would work, I will have to try that sometime.

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Good Point Bob. I am pretty frugal and hate to waste parafilm.

:joy: too funny! we are not that dry here!

This is a really clever idea! I may try that! Like @cis4elk, I hadn’t thought of newsprint being a better option than paper towels. Plus, it’s basically free! love that!

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That’s actually a myth. Bulk shipments are one of their biggest income streams right now, since regular mail volume fell off a cliff. It costs more for Joe Public because we’re showing up with one or two or ten packages, instead of a truckload of pre-sorted packages. It’s the volume discount. If Amazon was getting such a good deal, they wouldn’t be putting so much money into their Prime delivery service.

You and I can get the bulk rate, however, if you use a service like pirateship.com.

I’ll stop now, since I don’t want to get any further off topic.

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I received some wrapped in “newspaper” from a trade this spring. The person who sent them said the same thing. Indeed wet paper towels mold fairly quickly and the newspaper doesn’t. Specifically though, they advised using the “slick” paper that advertisement inserts are printed on.

I also received some where only the two cut ends were dipped in wax. Very nice, cut one end, create a tongue, straight onto rootstock.

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And that may be all you need for many scions. Still …

I can’t get over how good an idea wax-dipping is. I’ve stayed away from it because I just don’t do very many scions, but I do have a little bitty slow cooker somewhere, and I might just try using that this year. Dax (@barkslip) gives a demo here: Grafting Oak WB Using Fieldcraft Topgrafter Pt.1 Waxing Scions - YouTube and @Just Anne4 has her version: First time grafters: what's working, what isn't? - #165 by JustAnne4 And here’s a post Dax made a while back: 2017 Grafting Thread - #9 by Levers101 .

The wax, by the way, should also help protect the scion from issues caused by mildew.

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Everybody should understand that you don’t want to wax the entire scion for refrigeration. Just the cut ends that are nipped off.

Wax should be a very thin coating, also, when grafted. Too much wax and it takes about two years for the elements to diminish it and while the whole time the wood cannot breathe underneath you coating and the wood is affected in that it turns sooty black or spotty black. It’s gotta be a mildew but I’m not any scientist, I’ll tell you that. I just know it’s not natural nor good. So, look at my recipe here to do it right.

Dax

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Barkslip, good advice. You keep them hydrated with a few drops of water or some damp paper or other material and securely in plastic (wrap or a sandwich/freezer bag) and wax is no additional help. Wax is only a help if you don’t keep them stored in a cool damp place.

And, a little mold or mildew on scionwood wipes off, or a little weak bleach solution then a clear water rinse restores them in all the cases I’ve encountered mildew on scionwood.

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The whole point is about having the condensation shown inside the bag as just a small patch of super fine water droplets. About 100 water droplets in an area a cm tall and 3-5 cm long and at the bottoms of the bags. Until you get your wood in the proper moisture phase (I say w/o paper towels now since I’ve have time to think about this for near 20-years) you’ll need to monitor each bag individually once a week to dry the wood out some more (most common is wood is too wet for refrigeration storage) because you are seeing large water droplets on the insides of the bags vs that fine mist we’re talking about - you’re going to have to stay on top of each of the bags from the beginning until months and months later, checking the bags every few weeks or once-monthly so the fine mist particles are present, & even 6-months later if you still have them in your fridge and decide to use them, you’ve had to monitor them from the beginning…

Sure I don’t see a big problem with using a completely squeezed to the point of no water able to leave a paper towel piece (the size of a small marble for a smaller amount of wood, or a large marble in size of wadded up paper towel for a large bag of wood) but ultimately if you can get the wood to show the whole story of what’s actually happening inside the bag vs. an environment semi-controlled with artificial measures, you would have better taken the time to properly do what it is that Jay and I are doing and that is to do a quick dip in bleach/water; and then to hydrate for 15 or so minutes & then to dry for an hour or so before bagging and refrigerating, you’ve basically made shortcuts that reduce the longevity the scion(s) can live.

Does this make sense? It’s the same as going to the hardware store and buying all the right hardware and components to do a job strong, vs. buying materials and hardware that you’re going to have to re-do all over again come a couple years.

I go full out in most things I do. Construction is one of them. Clean work of (a) build is another. I don’t leave my work to be viewed as ‘it could’ve been done better had (I) put just a little more effort in.’ I don’t do that. The question is, how will you do your work when it comes to these scions?

See ya my friend blues.

DAX
P.s. for anyone reading… that mildew on “wood” outdoors is completely different from mildew on scions being shipped/stored. That outside mildew from being caked under wax is not an external problem on the wood, but rather it is now a living fungus “under” and a part of the outer bark. This needed clarification now so nobody confuses the two.

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I’ve seen pix of your place posted in past. Anyhow, no objection to being a perfectionist.
I am at some things, don’t know that taking care of seeds or grafting wood is one of them.
A lovely 2021 to ya’ Barkslip.

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You’re a nice guy. Have a fun day.

Dax

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For the visual learners Jaime made a nice video on this subject. https://youtu.be/7ToL5QHIDq4

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Thanks @DCinFLX , I will check it out!

My main objection to how many scions are shipped is excessive moisture. It is usually unnecessary and often damaging. I don’t receive dried out scions, but I’ve often gotten moldy ones. The combination of standing water and warmth during shipping is a recipe for disaster. If the scions are sealed in a ziplock dry, very little water is likely to be lost and there is no risk of mold and decay. If one is to use anything, damp (not wet!) shavings are far superior. A bag of pine shavings as sold for pet bedding will last half a lifetime probably. They have more resistance to mold than paper towels which are like petri dishes since they contain no inhibitory chemistry. They are also easier to get at the right moisture level, while “dampening” a paper towel is very difficult.

I have started treating mine in hydrogen peroxide. It is easy and you don’t have to dilute it. I just rinse, maybe with a few drops of soap to get better adhesion, and lay out to dry completely on the outside, then bag them. Some scions dry out easy, like peaches and almonds are especially bad and those I may store with damp shavings. Also things you have to keep a long time, like walnuts. But apples and pears I often store without anything, dry, but sealed. remember that if the bag is sealed, the air inside (most of which should be pressed out anyway) will quickly reach 100% humidity and inhibit further moisture loss.

On arrival and before grafting, it can be helpful, or good insurance, to cut the butt ends and soak in water in the fridge overnight.

I send first class almost always and it should be adequately fast.

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@SkillCult,
Thank you for sharing your methods with us. Very much appreciated!
One take-away for me from almost all the posters is NOT to use paper towels. Wood shavings, nothing at all, or newsprint are better options. I have used wetter than “damp” paper towels and found out how quickly mold will grow in that environment. Thanks again!

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I just watched your videos on YouTube on grafting @SkillCult and although I am new to grafting, I will be using this strategy for any scions I ship in the future. Such a simple inexpensive way to ship and still assure some moisture remains in the bag without overdoing it.

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I have used the zipper bag method without paper towel for so long that I forgot how bad paper towels are, yet my logic for using something besides just a baggie was to help prevent freeze damage to the cuttings during delivery. Yet now that I am reading this thread I am remembering how mold formed on a paper towel with a hydrogen peroxide solution soaked in to it, even the hydrogen peroxide could not prevent the paper towel from molding.

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I used a well-wrung out paper towel ball in the corner of the bag for years and never had any problems. The towel would mold a bit but it would not move to the scions. It is excess moisture that is the main problem. That said, now I just flick in a bit of water with my fingers and skip the paper towel.

Not putting any water in can be bad, especially if the bag is not a thick freezer-type bag. I have had scions in storage dry out badly in such bags even if I had hydrated them well initially. Note this is in longer-term storage, not just for shipping. But shipping in the heat I would like to have a little water in the bag just in case.

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Great stuff here of course.

Maybe this might end this thread since we all are talking about means other than allowing nature to the complete job.

My friend John Brittain now deceased (Nolin River Nursery) would wait until trees would be pumping sap into their canopy and just before they would break bud, John would cut. Then, he dipped each side in a thick wax to close off, and that’s how he kept and stored his scions also. John was a firm believer to never cut scions until the trees had pumped (water + nutrients) into the branches.

So there’s artificial means (I think it’s been beaten into the ground pretty good now - and by a lot of experts on this forum) and then there’s natural means. If you didn’t know John, he was one of the horticultural minds that had simple steps (pelleted chicken manure from the Amish) and John used to say, ‘be careful & don’t put it down heavy, this stuff is really “hot” and will burn) and he paid excavators with very small excavators to dig his trees during Fall while getting the entire root. He’s send you a tree that was 6’ tall with a 6’ tall root where you could see the tip. And then John put all his grafts laying on the ground and laid leaf mulch (city or county would bring them to him for free) over his trees and he would walk away and not turn around until it was Spring shipping time. And he always sold out.

So, there are people with very simple minds that know a lot more than a lot of us do. They might have grown up ‘on the farm’ you could say. Or, who knows… but it’s likely not the city.

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To prevent/delay mold, spray the paper towels with hydrogen peroxide. This works for me when starting seeds (damp paper towel in ziplock bag method).

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… or use newsprint instead of paper towels. Supposedly the soy-based ink on the newsprint is anti-fungal.

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