Problems With Bare Root Brambles (Rubus; Raspberry, Blackberry, etc.)

I’ve been growing brambles on and off for nearly a decade. Several varieties and species of blackberry, raspberry and hybrid brambleberries. One pattern has cropped up repeatedly for me when acquiring new plants: dormant and/or bare root specimens almost invariably fail for me.

I bought a dormant tayberry from Raintree that came potted (if I remember correctly). It never grew, and eventually rotted. The actively-growing Wild Treasure Blackberry I got from them has been growing for several years now. I’ve since acquired a growing Tayberry, and it’s been growing fine for over a year.

I’ve gotten two potted growing PAF from Edible Landscaping, and both are doing great for me.

Years ago I acquired live Caroline and Black Hawk Raspberries, and both were eventually unfortunate victims of a neglectful period (Caroline was a particularly bitter loss for me, as it was a fine bearer while it was taken care of).

Last year I ordered a bare root Joan J., anxious to repeat my success with Caroline. It never grew, the roots rotted. Previously I had received a sprouted! bare root for Mammoth Strawberry. Despite being sprouted, it fell behind and eventually died as well, despite my taking care of it.

With all these losses, my initial suspicion was an interaction between their dormancy and my tropical climate: if dormant or recently breaking dormancy, they would fail. But while I still suspect that full dormancy would be an issue for me regardless (note the first Tayberry), it doesn’t make sense to me that a plant that has already broken dormancy (no matter how recent) would just stop growing and die. We’re just coming out of winter here in PR, it’s not that hot despite the tropics (in fact the mainland continent gets hotter in the summer; we’re buffered by the sea here).

I placed an eBay order in January for a pair of Raspberries: Joan J. and Anne. The vendor was gracious enough to listen to my request: “Don’t ship them until they’re well leafed-out.“ But one thing that was not explicitly specified in the listing is that they were bare root. They arrived in bags of soil, disheveled but alive. I was hopeful. It’s been nearly two weeks (they arrived on the 1st of April). The small amounts of shoots on the cane have died. The roots have not sprouted. They still have living tissue (I rectified some planting mistakes that were not accounted for in the instructions), but they show no signs of sprouting anywhere, despite having broken dormancy before shipping (clearly dormancy is not the only factor, bare roots play a part). I’m fearful that I may lose them as well, they’re hanging on by a prayer.

This would also be a bitter loss… I’m thoroughly strapped for cash, I had to cook up around $50 for that purchase, and it may be a possible loss. Furthermore, experience has taught me that the shipping season for brambles is now: winter and spring. For some reason, barely anyone sells them during the growing season. If these two raspberries fail me now I’d have to wait an entire year to try again, unless I manage to find a person selling potted raspberries before the season’s done.

But I’ve digressed too long… The main point is this: Why are dormant and bare root raspberries failing so consistently for me? Logic tells me I can’t be the only one with this problem, but looking through search engines, YouTube, and even this very forum, reveals no results on anyone consistently failing to grow dormant or bare root brambles. ¿Am I missing something or am I going crazy? :neutral_face:

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I bought a variety of dormant one’s last year. Instructions insisted on fertilizing immediately, I was hesitant, didn’t do it. No sign of life for 2 weeks, thought they were junk but fertilized anyway. They then leaped into life, surprised the heck out of me!:kissing::smile_cat:

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I suspect some of it has to do with how the plants were stored at the nursery during dormancy. Maybe they froze and all the dormant buds died. It is a gamble and even more so if you are boundary pushing.

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I bought Tayberry and Prime Arch Freedom raspberry from Raintree last year. Both thrived but I am pretty sure there was a pot of prime arch freedom that did not have a plant in it. My Tayberry were a mistake. They grew everywhere and took over and I underestimated the thorns so I cut the canes and am hoping they don’t come back this year but like I said they are vigorous growers. I forget if mine were bare root or potted. My thimbleberry and salmonberry came dead as a doorknob from them though. I tried to grow Polka blackberry from Indiana Berry but none came out of dormancy. I have some more prime arch freedom blackberries shipped from Isons and we will see how they do.

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could you describe your aftercare? in what soil do you plant them? How long do they take to sprout? What are your temperatures when planting? (you seem to be in a zone where they don’t naturally grow)

dormant dug up plants loose most if not all of their hair roots. And have wounds on their roots.

So just thinking out loud, it could be fungal/bacterial infections on the dormant plants. (during dormancy the plants are a lot more susceptible to disease)

It could also be that it takes a while for enough hair roots to develop to sustain the leaf mass. If the plants do grow a shoot but then die. You could prune the shoot after 3 leaves. So the roots have time to catch up. A few weeks later a new shoot wil emerge from the internode of the 3 leaves left. Or a completely new shoot from the roots.

I have had excellent luck transplanting rubus species during dormancy.

below a picture of a tayberry i sent to someone.

tayberry’s for me propagate both by spontaneously growing new shoots from roots. But also from naturally tip rooting.

I have had plants thrive where i accidentally broke off all buds/shoots. They just took a few weeks and grew new ones from the center but also from longer roots.

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I forgot to mention in the original post, I also ordered some small live raspberries (Caroline, Jewel and Ohio Treasure) from Edible Landscaping last year, and they died. I had suspected it was because they came out of dormancy not long ago.

I fertilized mine with 20-20 solution last week, still no signs of sprouting.

I have mine in a 7 gallon pot, looping the vines around a tomato cage. Same with Wild Treasure Blackberry. My experience with these (and Black Hawk) is what led me to conclude that Primocane fruiting is a must for the tropics, or at least low-chill floricanes. In all the time I’ve had them, they periodically send out pretty new canes from the ground while the older canes turn more and more ragged, losing their leaves and eventually dying without sprouting a single shoot nor bearing a single flower. Clearly they both have a strong chill requirement. Breeding a primocane counterpart to the hybrid brambles is a high priority for me. Meanwhile, I could try out giberellic acid on these if I could get my hands on it.

Zone 13a (allegedly). I kept them in partial shade until recently, I moved out one into direct sun a couple of days ago. I keep them well watered, planted in pro mix. Currently no signs of sprouting. I don’t have a thermometer handy, but a quick online search revealed the current temperature to be 86° (apparently 94° according to some kind of “Real Feel” equation). The high temps don’t seem to be bothering my other brambles significantly, nor did they bother my past raspberries while grew them (a testament to the depths of my past neglect, that they held out as long as they did – about two years – under scorching sun and heat with very little soil… lack of water finally did them in).

What happened to @krismoriah ’s reply? It’s in my email, but not here. The technique described for in-ground planting seemed great. As for my selected red and golds… I went with Anne because it’s been successfully tested by other growers here, and Joan J for thornlessness; both primocanes. ¿Are the Cascades primocane or low chill? If the plants prefer cooler temps for the initial root development, I gotta put it back in the shade.

Well, I found a vendor for potted Joan J willing to ship to me. Time to splurge again and hope for the best.

Off the subject, but are there any raspberry varieties that will produce well in Zone 13a? They don’t do well here in 9a.

i would be careful with fertilizers. Bare root plants loose most if not all of their fine(hair) roots. Those fine roots are sensitive to fertilizers.

Most members of the Rubus genus grow in dappled shade naturally. And further from the equator than where you are at.

If even noticed that here, plants in semi shade are healthier and take less care than plants in full sun. But when properly cared for, plants in full sun produce slightly more.

I would plant the plants in ground (not pots) and put them in a shady or semi shady spot (cooler spot) and not fertilize until they show some growth.

The nutrients/energy needed for root/shoot development is stored in the large roots of the plant. So no need to supplement that until they are growing loads of leaves.

promix is peat based if im not mistaken. Peat gets quite wet really fast. To wet combined with higher temperatures can more easily lead to rot/disease.

I think planting in ground (on a mound if clay, or normally if wel draining soil) is your best bet.

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Caroline did very well for me for two or three years, fruiting, growing, even splitting for propagation, in a pot. It was only when I shelled up into my house and let the garden “go to seed” for several consecutive months that I eventually lost it. Black Hawk looked worse for wear, but it survived until I hit one such neglectful period.

I just freed up a spot in the semi-shaded side yard (where a banana was growing), so I may plant one there. I’m a bit nervous about planting in-ground before doing so in a pot, though.

I lost at least half of my bare rooted raspberries soon after they sprouted in spring. The leaves looked scorched and they started wilting until they eventually died. It may have been due to root rot (Phytophthora root rot). Apparently it can get worse and can spread by watering or wet soil. The dormant canes were probably already infected when I bought them. I tried using an Anti Rot Fungicide spray which I think helped to some extent.

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Here is ‘Wyoming’ purple from cuttings. Planted these yesterday evening

Growth in 1 yr. These rooted cuttings were planted May 2022

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What system do you use to get a root “ball” like that?

Those are some impressively rooted cuttings. Those roots are holding together a loose looking potting mix in an extremely long plant tray. (where did you get such deep tray’s?)

Not my invention. Idea from here.

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seems great.
I’m slightly worried about compaction of the soil with the planter tool though. I’m not sure that’s successful on all soils.

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I plant all of my things bare handed. and with this tool. I remove rocks with the claws. The sharp hoe end is for removing the sod or if i encounter other roots or need to dislodge bigger rocks etc.

@krismoriah

Found ‘em! The price scared me a bit until I toggled a button. Apparently the default seems like a wholesale option.

https://stuewe.com/product/ray-leach-pine-cell-uv/

Dibbles seem best to me used in friable soil.I’ve seen some tools that remove a plug of soil (I think for soil testing purposes), they seem ideal for this since they’d remove soil rather than pushing into it.I don’t remember what they’re called, though. My own soil is heavy clay, so a dibble for the yard is definitely out.

@Caesar

Mine are SC10. Im sure SC4 would be good also.

i think that’s called a soil auger

What’s the difference between the two?

Aren’t the augurs the big spiral soil drills? Or is the name applied to other tool formats?