I am so confused about pruning apples.
I ‘got’ the vase thing . . . for stone fruit. I ‘see’ that, when I look at my young trees. But apples??? And modified central leader stuff? - duh.
I went to an orchard, in Charlottesville, a couple of years ago - to attend a grafting workshop. And their trees all appeared to be pruned to a vase shape.
Isn’t that what this is?
So, can I prune my apple trees with an open center?
I know this was probably discussed here on the forum, at some point. But I couldn’t find a thread. And I’ve looked at all of the diagrams, and such. It’s just that when I walk up to a tree of mine - I can no longer make heads or tails of what to take - and what to leave.
I don’t see why not. Even with this old apple tree in the photo, you still can take out the vertical branch in the center and open it up a bit to let the sun in.
I’m no pro and I’ve only been growing apples for couple of years. I prune my apple trees open center. Mostly for looks, keep it short and because I find it easier to prune to open center than central leader.
So far they are doing ok
I’m not a good pruning person, but just for starters I’d say that it’s a lot easier to figure out if you start with a youngish tree that hasn’t been overly worked on!
Say you have a one-year old whip that’s about as three or four feet tall. It has one big stem that’s about 1 1/2 inches in diameter, and probably some feathering. That big stem is your central leader. Let it grow a season. Some of the feathers will be getting established, and you want to select about three or four of them which are nicely spaced around and up and down the central stem (think circular staircase here). The bigger the tree is going to be allowed to get the further apart these should be - leave them room to grow. And while they’re very young is the time to train them to a good branch angle.
So now you have a central leader and a lower scaffold. If you cut out the leader you have a vase. But if you leave it you can allow a second set of scaffolds to grow the same as the first. Just leave some space between the lower set and the higher set so light and air can circulate nicely, and so you’ll have some working room. My pear has too many scaffold branches, because I’m greedy and I can’t stand to take them out. You can be smarter than I am, trust me on that!
So that’s what I think is the way to set up a central leader tree, but I’m open to corrections. And I’ll admit that it’s a lot harder to see it on an older tree. But it doesn’t have to be perfect, and that’s a good thing 'cause none of mine are, and I still get more fruit (in a good year) than I know what to do with.
Vase pruning is not just for stone fruit. MANY old orchards in Wisconsin that had apples on standard rootstocks often pruned them with vase pruning. Due to their vigor and height, vase pruning offered more height control. I recall in my youth walking thru the best Cortland trees on standard rootstock I ever saw.
Tree originally cut back at 3.5-4’ and beautifully pruned so the trees were not very tall at all. Just very wide and could pick with a decent sized ladder.
I have about 1/2 of my apple trees vase pruned and 1/2 are central leader. Both systems work for me. Sometimes I start a tree a certain way and then it seems to tell me what it wants. Often if a central leader breaks on a young tree then I go to vase pruning it. Both pruning systems work.
Ditto on peaches. I have vase pruned most and for fun left one central leader pruned. It did fine. Later with age part of the center broke in a storm so now it is vase pruned.
As others have mentioned you can prune your apples to a vase. This is a method that you understand so go with it. I mostly use a modified leader but that is my preference which certainly doesn’t infer that it is the best.
That makes it sound much more do-able and simpler than all the diagrams I’ve seen. I ‘get’ that explanation. Thank you marknmt. Also, Bill, and Susu, Spartan and Tony.
Glad if it helps, but in practice it’s a little easier to describe than to carry out! The devil, as always is in the details. Helps to remember that trees are genetically programmed to survive and are eager to help you!
I just drove by an old orchard that’s on the outside of town. I noticed a lot of the old trees are pruned as a vase. Like you said they’re big trees on standard rootstock.
Pruning is done for several reasons. Knowing what YOU hope to accomplish by pruning is the key. Trees are grown in a way that best suits the owners needs. Sounds like a very generic answer I know, but when you think about it that is really what it comes down to.
