if you go to the document i posted
Van S1 S3 II CA Empress Eugenie open pollinated
Van is not self fruitful.
The document i posted is from a cherry research/breeding institution. Compiled from genetic/university study’s.
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So variety must have S4 to be self fertile?
Is there a legend that explains what each S# or combination thereof equates to?
Governor wood does not appear to be listed with S#, but it is also indicated as self fertile on suppliers…?
cherry pollination is a little more complicated than most other fruits.
There are different allele’s that cause self infertility. Those are named S3, S4 etc
Each tree has a Pair. Like S4S5 for example. And can’t set fruit when pollinated from S4 or S5 pollen.
However if you plant a S3S4 tree near for example an S4S5 tree. Half the pollen will have the S3 allele and the other half the S4 allele. Since pollen only carry half the genetic code of the parent. And thus half the pollen can fertilize the tree.
The S3S4 tree can set fruit from the S5 pollen. And the S4S5 tree can set fruit from the S3 pollen. This usually is enough for a good fruit load.
However they irradiated some cherry’s till the S4 allele broke. And it thus no longer fulfils it’s function of avoiding self fertilization. We denote the “broken” S allele’s with an ’ like S4’ for example.
So not all S4Sx cherries are self fertile. But all S4’Sx are. Same for cherries containing S3’ and S5’ although there seem to be way less of those.
it is explained in part in this document. that i posted before.
page 30 lists universal donor’s. Those have and unique S allele combination. That no other variety has (maybe future Varity will have)
And thus if you plant 2 cherries that flower around the same time. And 1 variety is of page 30, both can be successfully pollinated.
for example Antuono S10S16 is such an universal donor. There are other cherry variety’s with S10 and others with S16. But none (yet) with both. So if you pick any other cherry, at least half the pollen will be compatible.
Then page 31 and 32 list the self compatible cherries. Those have a “broken” S allele. And thus the S allele no longer blocks self fertilization.
in this topic. i posted a few other links about cherry S allele. You’ll have to buy the articles or use sci-hub or an university library to read them though. There it is explained a little bit more elaborately.
however since your tree’s had some cherries. I think pollen incompatibility is likely not your problem. It might be poor pollination due to whether or lack of pollinators. (although it could have been that your tree’s are the same S combination, and you got lucky once from an insect coming from another cherry tree far away
That’s interesting that the S4 allele broke due to irradiation to cause self-fertility.
I think the main problem with the pollination could be the separation between the trees. I primarily have mason bees ( my understanding is that they wont travel as far as honey bees) at the time of blooming, and there is no clear path to the trees. They are separated by a somewhat steep 8’ elevation change, about 100 ft distance, and dense foliage from other trees that block the view of one another, and that also have heavy amounts of blooms to distract the pollinators.
An insect coming from far is a possibility, as there was apparently several other cherry trees at a neighbors ( approx 500’ away) several years ago but have since been removed.
Not a question but a great video!
Nebraska retiree uses earths’s heat to grow oranges in snow - YouTube
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Thank you Luis for posting this. Very interesting. Now I know what I want to do when I am retired😂
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if seen that movie before. It’s awesome. If been making plans for such an underground/thermal mass greenhouse for a while now. Quite a lot of physics goes into making such a plan.
In china they are used quite a lot for year round vegetable production.
see for example
if not seen total internal reflection angle mentioned a lot. But i guess if you use a diffuse plastic that matters less.
And i plan to build one some day, and use (IBC) totes, filled with water as a thermal mass. To bridge cloudy dark winter weeks.
And maybe even build a rocket stove inside. (possible connected with a heat exchanger (copper pipe) to the IBC tote)
if also been contemplating making it a dubbel wall. ~6-8 " thick between plastic.
Or possibly an IR reflective (like Mylar) movable “curtain” for at night. To not loose so much heat to radiative cooling.
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It’s a great inspiration for people planing to grow fruit trees and vegetables on snow areas! Thank’s! 
This shows the different color of the cherry tree bark, and viewing from the silver tree to the direction of the brown tree, and viewing from the brown tree up towards the direction of the silver tree.
Does anyone know of a supplier that sells first year fruiting-sized Lapins or White Gold cherry tree?
I recently discovered I have wild red currants growing everywhere in my grove, good news at first because I would like to try using them. However, I have planted around 100 white pine as part of my windbreak and learned all about white pine blister on a thread on this forum recently, now I’m contemplating spraying all of the currants with roundup. Would rather give them up than all of the time invested in my windbreak. Should I spray or is the risk of the disease really low for me? I’m zone 4 NW Iowa, my grove is an island about a half mile from the nearest bush or tree. All corn and soybeans in this area. According to an ia state article it says don’t plant them especially black types if next to a large number of white pine, but probably OK for most Iowa gardeners…
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Red Currents are resistant to WPBR and are a source of resistance genes. Some cultivars are completely resistant. Wild populations can the disease but are far less susceptible to it then black currents.
The short lived spores maximum effective range is about 1000ft. Its recommended to remove ribes less then 200ft from white pines. Reds being resistant between greater thane 200ft away could stay and simply be monitored.
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@lordkiwi When you say just monitor, is it possible to prevent the white pine from dying once they are infected, by killing the currants and ending the cycle or are they a lost cause once infected and you’d just be preventing the rest from getting it? From what I’ve read it kind of sounds like it’s over for that tree but I wasn’t sure on that part. Some currants are under 200ft from the trees.
I do not know about the White Pines. Just repeating what the USDA and extensions offices say about currents. Restrictions on Red Currents have long been rescinded (1966). Where there still restricted at state levels Reds I know are not in NJ and OH at least.
The best thing you could do is call up your local extention office and ask if the local Red Currents are known carriers ot WPBR
the info i read from the Maine ext. service says most infections are on less than 9ft. from the ground and can be pruned out when seen. in n. Maine we are allowed to grow gooseberry and red/ white currant due to the very low chance of them harboring W.P.B.R.
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Are blueberry varieties able to grow to tree form? Ultimately, I have the perfect spot I’d love to plant my blueberry bush in, but would hope to not keep it fenced from deer when tall enough. It is a “star” variety which says it can grow 6-12’ tall (per the tag). It already is about 5’ tall.
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I have ordered a “fruit-bearing size” Lapins cherry, and it should arrive in a couple of days. I am hoping that it is nicely branched with lots of fruiting buds!
Because I have two trees far apart, I am debating about keeping it in a large pot and moving it from tree to tree, until grafts are established on the existing trees… Also, if the weather is especially bad next spring, it will allow me to move it under the roof, potentially saving the blossoms from wet-condition infections. Thoughts?
i would just plant it.
they tend not to thrive in pots.
It’s better to plant. and if you really want to, you could prune of a branch with flowers and hang that in your other cherry tree on a nice day.
The extra growth from not being in a pot, will more than make up for the little bit you pruned off.
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I just noticed today that all of sudden wasps are infesting my plums. I’ve never had to deal with that before. It looks like birds peck at the fruit, ruin it, and then wasps take over.
Do wasp traps work? I hung up scare tape to try slow the birds down. Go figure, I solve my deer problem and now I’m presented with another problem.
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This means your plum is getting ripe. I used wasp traps last year and had trapped many wasps but not all of them
Yellow jackets are the problem in my area, and the wasp traps do work. If you can deploy them in the Spring when the queens are out, they are really effective.