Questions not deserving of a whole thread


They aren’t standing in water per se, but I imagine the water table is close to the roots when we get heavy rains.

I did do a little plowing before I planted them, but just enough to tear up the soil in about a 4ft swath. So they do have a bit of elevation to them.

They are a Winecrisp, Golden Russet and Goldrush. Only the Goldrush looks somewhat normal after a couple years. The other two have hardly developed any substantial scaffolds or even a new central leader.

They’re all on different Geneva rootstocks, so it’s hard to tell if it’s the variety or the RS. The Russet is on G222, the WC is on G202 and the GR is on G890.

I could maybe try to improve the drainage around them, to help divert more water away from their immediate location.


I never had fruit trees grow well if they don’t have decent growth the first two years. I don’t waste my time especially with Apples anymore - no or very limited growth they get dug up and disposed of. I have one spot in my yard that is similar to what you describe - and the fruit trees did very poorly in that area.


I spaced my trees at the farm at 18’ between the trees within the rows and 25’ between rows. At the house I spaced my trees at 20’ on a diamond. You can get a few more trees per the amount of space you are filling with a diamond planting vs. planting on squares.

Really though I’ve learned there is no “correct” answer when it comes to peach tree spacing. I’ve read lots of recommendations from various extension materials, and there is a lot of variability in the spacing recommendations, even with the same tree training method (i.e. open vase, quad, etc.). I even asked peach guru Jerry Frecon on another forum once about optimum spacing and he didn’t give me a definitive answer.

Here, all the commercial growers space their peach trees a little different. I probably give more space than just about anybody though. The reason why is that when I just had peach trees at the house on 20’ spacing, they were wanting to grow into each other. I have to keep mature trees pruned back quite a bit just to get a riding mower between them (My riding mower has a small roll bar which sticks up.) I knew how I train my trees that I would have problems getting a tractor down the rows if I spaced them much tighter than 25’ between the rows. In fact, I have to prune some of the trees a little after the growing season to be able to get the tractor down the rows without hitting branches.

It really depends on the vigor of the trees and how spreading you train them. It does control their size to some degree when you pack them tight. But if I tried to pack them tight, it would a nightmare to try to keep them from growing into each other.

I probably wouldn’t recommend something as tight as the 10’ spacing you mentioned (for normal open vase trees) but there are people on the forum who space them even tighter. I think it gets to the point though where you have to keep pruning so much wood to keep the trees in their space, that yield can go down dramatically, because you always have to keep pruning off about all of the new productive wood.

Btw, I liked the history and pic you shared about VA mines. Very interesting.


Spud I love seeing pictures of old historic ruins like that.

Here in northern WV we have something similar. The Henry Clay Iron furnace is just east of Morgantown in a remote section of what is now a state forest. There is a walking trail that takes you right to it.

Interesting enough, there is an heirloom apple named after Henry Clay.

These pics were also poached from the net



Im not sure this is a question for this thread in that I think it might spark more than one answer. However, I’ve seen a lot of information lately regarding air pruning root pots and the videos I’ve seen make their point about needing to create a large root system just underground. I had been under the impression that a tap root was fundamentally a good thing and I do understand the concept of the tap root/s circling the pot not being a good thing. So, with growing seedlings is this root pruning pot really a good thing? Do the trees do well without a tap root? And is it just the fact that it is almost impossible to get a seedling from a pot into the ground with the tap root in a position to be a tap root? Is this as confusing as I think it is?


From the reading I’ve done a tap roots primary purpose is to anchor the tree, which I feel is important for a pecan tree leaning over my house or fence line. I wouldn’t plant pecans near my house regardless. The majority of feeder roots are superficial; although, by making the tree “work” for water perhaps those roots branch out and grow deeper? I will add, I’ve planted large 7 gallon persimmons during the spring that had a bright white new taproot formed (I chopped the initial taproot off because of circling). Now, I don’t worry about circling too much unless it’s near the surface. I think grafting onto volunteers or direct seeding is the best possible scenario long term, but only marginally.

What I love about the root pruning containers is the massive amount of feeder roots. By taking a pampered root pruned tree and planting it in the fall or winter I end up with an extremely resilient tree. I may never water that tree after the initial planting. This portability (think pawpaw’s early shade requirements) combined with the ability to select the most vigorous makes these containers invaluable.

These are just my opinions.

Edit: I only worry about circling root bound pots if it is completely circumferential.


So basically you’re saying that the tree will eventually develop its tap root system but the forcing of the feeder roots is the big deal with the root pruning pots?


I think the tree will eventually develop a new taproot(s), probably not as vigorous as the original, but still good. The mass of feeder roots creates a very resilient tree. The pruning pots do prevent severe root binding.

The problem with plastic nursery pots is sellers will promote a 10 foot pear tree in a 3 gallon plastic pot as a good thing. That tree’s roots are probably an entire mass of round bound mess. In that case, I would hack that tree off at 3 foot and cut away at least half of the root ball in order to untangle and spread the roots. That’s a lot different than a few circling root branches, which can easily be unwound. Typical plastic nursery pots can be used very well if the tree is planted at the right time.


I’ve spent a lot of time detangling roots! Those root pruners are really expensive though for mass production.


I just ordered a persimmon and reading up about growing them. Today I came across this article that says persimmons have a foul smell. Is that true? How bad is it? I was going to plant this about 15 ft from the neighbors. I don’t want them to be bothered by a tree in my yard.


No foul smell at all. I have a total of 15 persimmon trees.



I think it’s a bit more complicated for forest trees. The richest, warmest soil is the top 12-18" (as I’m sure you know) and as long as it is moist that is where most of the root action is. At least some species apparently do use their tap roots in a manner true to their name- maples have been shown to release water drawn from deep roots into the top soil to the benefit of not only the tree itself but to the substory within reach of the water. The sun helps pull the surplus water up into the tree during the day and in the evening the tree releases it though its feeder roots into the best soil. I assume during the day those “tap roots” directly help serve the water needs of the tree, at least as soon as the water released the night before is used up.

Irrigated trees don’t need deep roots for water access, and probably don’t develop them as well- I bet they are more likely to tip over in storms or under heavy crop loads. Carl Whitcomb theorizes that drought is also beneficial because it causes trees to exploit nutrients in deeper soil that are not available above. I don’t think he ever performed any experiments to prove this idea.


Anyone use tree rings made from recycled rubber? Do they really allow the moisture in to the roots? Pros/Cons?


I used them until the trees got too big for them . Worked fine .


What packaging do you use for shipping scion? Does it require a box or just a bubble envelope?


Pawpaws trees can smell bad/weird.


In my very limited experience, both shipping and receiving scions, bubble wrap/envelope (built-in or not) seems to be common.


Here in western Orygun/Oregon it has been and will be (at least this week) in the '50’s, sometimes 60, and sometimes sunny, which is usually the weather we get in early March. This time of year we normally get some flooding and possible snow/ice storms. A late freeze is the obvious concern, but I’m wondering about cutting scions now. Normally the end of Feb is good for that but I have a few scion deals with folks in the Midwest and East some of whom are still in the ‘polar vortex’ and my little trees look like they’re starting to push buds. Should I cut and send (or refrigerate) now?
(I don’t know if this topic has been covered lately in this thread/post. TL; DR)


I’m near Seattle and some low chill Plum buds are swelling,so all the trees are getting pruned now and being refrigerated until being sent or used later.Brady


Peaches are starting to open here, Cherry buds are starting to elongate. and the forecast is low-mid 20’s this weekend.