You should probably look for formulations packaged for homeowners. You are purchasing way too much material. But you must already be aware of this.
Current guidelines given to commercial growers only recommend Rally for early blight- which is a condition I’ve never seen when BR destroys flowers.
Here’s and example of what I’m seeing. http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/sdhi_fungicides_for_protecting_fruit_from_brown_rot_infection
You are right! I do have Nufilm sticker and will have to keep buying it as well.
I definitely need carbaryl and Imidan both. Imidan has been highly effective for me in combating PC and OFM, but not good at all on Japanese Beetles. Though J-Beetles are only active here for a few weeks, when they arrive they absolutely destroy some of my fruits and fruit trees/plants. Grapes, grape vines, and peaches are at the top of that list with blackberries being lower but also susceptible. I find soapy water to be only good for those I hit with it, but useless at preventing those that arrive even a few minutes later. Sevin dust (carbaryl) also works best when sprayed directly onto them, but it also provides some level of protection for a few days after its applied (or until the next rain). So I don’t need it in huge quantities like I do imidan, but I certainly need both.
Thanks for that Alan, but actually that is why I’m posting this…homeowner packaging just isn’t enough for me on some things. For example, just last winter I bought a 5 pound bag of imidan and its almost gone now (1 full season and 1/2 of another). I have gone through 5 bottles of the Immunox over the last season and 1/2, so that is why I wondered if I’d be cheaper to stop buying those small homeowner bottles at Lowes. I do still have a good deal of the Kocide 3000 bag I bought from Keystone, but if I’d been using homeowner packaging bottles I’d have gone through a few. I have used almost 1/2 the 1.25 gallon of sticker (pinene II (generic Nu Film) even though it only calls for 1/2 tsp per gallon). Remember, I’m spraying about 125 trees, 50 bushes/brambels/other fruit plants, and several hundred garden plants in a 1/2 acre garden. Of course not all sprays are used on all plants, but it really adds up every 2 years.; Thats why I’ve tried to go to larger, more commercial quantities when possible- especially on things with a decent shelf life.
BTW…I was really interested in what you said about not seeing BR destroy flowers. Everything I’ve read the last few days about BR talks about how it starts with flowers and how important it is to get it on before the flowers bloom…but just like you, I’ve NEVER seen it do that at my place. It only hits peaches that are starting to ripen.
The two sprays mentioned in the link you provided that I keep seeing over and over on lots of different sites are :Luna and Indar. I understand (a little bit) how they are different, but both seem to get a lot of attention. Sounds like you wouldn’t recommend Rally or even Myclo, so would you recommend Luna or Indar? If so, which one? If not, what would you suggest. I’ve seen you mention several things you do not think are effective and/or not used commercially, but I’ve missed where you recommend what SHOULD be used. Thanks.
One way you can save a bit of money is to order through Martin’s, they have the best prices I have seen, often 20% less. I haven’t ordered from them myself but recently regretted not doing so (Regalia is much cheaper there but I found that out too late).
Thanks Scott…that may help a lot.
You’ve probably posted it before, but could you please give me a link to the Martin’s place you are talking about. The only “Martins” I can find via google has very, very few products. Thanks, Scott!
EDIT: Disregard. I found it. Feeling pretty dumb now since it was listed above in this very thread.
I use pristine as the alternate to Indar, because it is labeled for apples as well. But I transfer the expense of materials to my customers who are glad to pay.
I can cover 50 full sized semi-standard trees (say 15’ tall with 15’ spread) with 25 gallons of spray, but I think my airblast hand gun with only a 4hp engine which comes out at about 180 PSI when the gun is fully open is the perfect power level to penetrate foliage without wasting extra spray.
Of course the commercial packaging is MUCH less expensive if you can use it up.
I don’t have to do much spraying after the 2-3 sprays I put down in early to mid-spring, which is an advantage to being further north.
I don’t need to use cabaryl for J. beets. Anything that controls PC should be strong enough to adequately control them, IME, just don’t expect the instant knock down- but they do stop feeding. But as I say, in my experience- and alternatives also have more residual control.
By far, the cheapest insecticides are the pyrethroids, but most commercial formulations require an applicator license for purchase- I assume because they are so concentrated. They are relatively safe otherwise. Permethrin may be an exception in your state. .
That was a particularly helpful post, and since your posts are always helpful, that is really saying something. You also brought up another reason why my chemical usage is probably quite a bit higher than you may have expected…I have absolutely learned for certain- and learned the hard way- that I have to spray for PC and OFM every 10-14 days. I understand you might find that concerning and perhaps even think it is overkill, but I promise you that if it rains a lot, even though I DO USE A STICKER, if I go longer than 14 days and my insects get to the feeding stage at the end of that 14 days and a good rain, my fruit will absolutely get hit, and probably hit HARD. I’m not guessing about this, nor am I basing my conclusions on just one or two experiences. Nor am I just going off of one or two experiences. This is from repeated observations. In short, this means I have to spray at LEAST6-8 times in a season. And really its more like 10-12 because if I don’t continue to spray for OFM and PC after harvest, I will get very little meaningful growth on my trees because the insects will bore into ALL (I really mean ALL) the tender tips on my trees, causing those tips to die and therefore stop to growth for several weeks.
What all this means is that I really do require a lot more spraying than it sounds like you do. That’s why I’m suddenly shopping around and becoming more cost conscience. Thanks again for all your help!
Yes you have a much worse issue with OFM than I do and mine is the worst of orchards I manage- some set in suburban type lawns don’t require any applications for OFM at all. I assume your problem with flagging is only on peaches and nects.
One way to reduce spray for OFM when the issue is only the shoots is to spray only the shoots. In my nursery I do that with Assail in a hand-sprayer. Thorough coverage is completely unnecessary for me here to keep my peaches growing properly. I can cover a 100 nursery trees with a gallon of spray.
Years ago there was a pyrethroid baited paste you could dab around the orchard that had OFM phermonal attractant which seemed to completely control the pest. The poison in the attractant seemed to work the whole season somehow. For reasons I don’t understand, it was taken off market. Someone suggested I try a home-made version, which would likely be illegal.
https://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=358
One important point related to that is you want to mainly target the shoots in early sprays as most of the worms are there. I hold my extension wand high up and let the spray “rain down” on the trees. I also get the fruits, a few early ones get infected. But its the later generations that are more problematic in the fruits.
@thecityman and @alan
I looked up Imidan label. It says “not for use in residential areas” .
If we spray Imidan in our backyard orchards, wouldn’t it against the label?
After some research of the term I found the legal definition which meant, not for use within 100 ft. of a residence.
Some of the terms aren’t based on government restrictions but are probably meant to reduce the manufacturers liability.
Thanks for clarification. I raised this point so new members who have read that Imidan is very effective insecticide, would be able to figure out if they could use it in their orchards or not.
I assume your error was of the typo type. Imidan is an insecticide. An organophosphate, which means it can kill people as well as insects and needs to be locked up when in storage.
yup. Insecticide. Thank you for your correction.
So this morning I was collecting pots from plants in the garden to bring in to transplant seedlings. I was thinking about sterilizing the pots while I tossed chlorine tabs into my wife’s little pop up pool, and once I remembered that I am out of bleach to sterilize the pots, I wiped them clean and stuck them in the pool under the solar cover to keep them submerged.
What do you guys think? A day in the pool while I am working enough to kill potential eggs and stuff enough to prevent contamination of my sunroom while replanting? I was considering nuking the pots after I filled them with soil anyway, but I was thinking it’s probably not necessary.
@MisterGuy I usually just wash mine well with plain water and have always felt it sufficient but of course I have no evidence of that. But the reason I wanted to comment was to ask what you meant when you said you were thinking about nuking the pots and dirt. Are you considering microwaving them? Just curious. Seems like that might also kill beneficial microbes and organisms?
@mamuang that was very observant of you to notice that, and I sure am glad Alan cleared it up. I try to follow labels as much as I can, but I’ve come to rely on imidan so much that I would have continued to use it even if the label did say not for home use. But my trees are more than 100 feet from my house so I guess (hope) I am still compliant with labels. BTW, I didn’t know you used imidan. For me its been a real life saver, but the pros like Alan tell me that shouldn’t be a surprise because its just a stronger product than the stuff available at Lowes. I just know it works well for me…unless of course I get lazy on my application times, which happens! ha
@alan Why didn’t you give me that great bit of advice (about spraying only tips to prevent flagging after fruit is gone) a few years ago! ha. It took longer than it should have for common sense to teach me that little trick, but I’ve been doing it this year on my peach trees that didn’t produce fruit (late freeze) and its worked really well and saved me a lot of product and time and work. I just focus my wand on tips and don’t spray whole tree and it really has worked - so once again, great advice. Thanks. OH…and yes, its is 95% just my peaches and nects that get the tips killed. The other 5 % are plums and apricots. Its very rare on those, though. And may be something different because when it happens to peaches I can always dig around in the remaining live tissue of the tip and find the little worm (PC or OFM). But the plum and especially apricot tips are so thin that the worm can’t bore inside and isn’t there. I suspect these are sort of a “mistake” made by desperate mothers looking for a place to lay and egg and once she puts it there, it does hatch and the larvae/worm kills the tip by TRYING to borrow in but is unable to do so due to the very small diameter of plum and apricot tips. But I’m just guessing and you’d know better than me what is causing it on the plums and apricots-and like I said, it is very rare on both of them. But if I don’t spray a peach tree, I can honestly tell you that each and every single tip on the entire tree will be wilted and eventually brown, and later replaced by 2 new trips which makes the tree bushier than it should be. Thanks for your help, as always
Nope, your theory is as good as mine- if I had one. But on a different topic, it seems odd to me that you’ve found PC worms in peach shoots. I’m doubtful, but anything is possible.
That is just me covering myself because I don’t know what they are so I just say PC/OFM each time. To this day I honestly can’t tell the difference in the worms/larvae with any degree of certainty. I’m aware of some of the ways you are suppossed to be able to tell (crawl vs roll, etc) but I just can’t always tell, so I often put both of them in discussions. So don’t worry…I almost certainly do NOT have PC in my shoots if you are telling me that is unusual behavior for them. I just know that I can dig a little worm out of all my dead peach tips and its the white, brown head, maggot-looking critter.
In fact, if it really would be quite unusual to get PC in my shoots, then you’ve just helped me for the 12,754th time by letting me know what pest is causing that problem! ha. That being said, there is no mistaking the crescent shaped scar on the fruit and I’ve seen adults before, so I definitely do have both PC and OFM, but apparently not both in my shoots. Thanks for that info.
Kevin,
No, I have never used Imidan and will not be able to use it as I live in a densely populated residential neighborhood. It’d be unfair for my neighbors if I used such chemicals to protect my fruit and jeopardize their health.
I asked Alan for clarification because I think it’d be helpful esp. For new forum members. Some may not be used to checking labels, know about PHI, REI of the chemicals they want to spray. All they have read is that such and such chemicals are good products for insecticide or fungicide. This way, they could check those warnings and decide if it is worth it to spray certain products. Everyone has different level of tolerance re. using chemical spray.
By the way, PC does not feed on shoot tips. It’s the OFM that does. But they seem to start damaging our fruit at about the same times and they look similar (as larvae) so it’s quite common for us to lump them together 