So I should try to lop them off and regraft? They are part of a pretty large multigraft tree now, starting with a trunk around 9" in diameter, so all its branches are fairly substantial.
As for the elbertas, I know they aren’t anything near the best, but good thing I now know the varieties to graft onto their rootstocks once the mature a bit more. I’m also trying a flavor supreme pluot next to my Santa Rosa plum in hopes of finally getting fruit set on the Santa Rosa.
Apples…I haven’t tried grow a pink lady yet…so far my fuji has been cranking out no work fruit.
My soil is Calcium deficient and very low pH, should Rootpac-R and/or Titan still work well?
In terms of getting more cherries, Selah is one I’ve looked long and hard for, but like many other of our wonderful varieties in California, they’re near impossible to get as a backyard grower.
Finally, according to bloom charts, Tieton blooms 7 days before earliest cherry, bing. Is that difference in bloom time enough to cause problems?
Hi Eddie.
The low pH of the soil is not usually a problem, unless it is a soil with a very very low Ph.
Look at this graph of nutrient assimilation based on Ph.
Two parameters must be evaluated, on the one hand the Ph of the soil, there are extremely cheap test strips to measure the Ph of the soil (this parameter does not worry me much).
What I am interested in knowing is if your land is very humid or flooded, because this is a serious problem, and normally soils with low Ph tend to be areas with a lot of humidity in the land.
Once we know if your soil is humid, we will choose the rootstock.
Rootpac-R , is a rootstock for replanting in difficult soil conditions, it’s like a life insurance, or rather, it’s like going to prom and fucking the prom queen hahahahahaha
In the forum there are people who have the Selah cherry tree variety, and it will not be difficult for you to obtain some graft cuttings of this variety.
Selah is highly recommended for two reasons:
It is a cherry of the highest quality
It is self-fertile and universal pollinator of all mid-flowering varieties (for example Tieton)
There is no 7 day difference between the flowering of Bing and Tieton.
Both have a medium flowering period and are compatible in pollination.
Bing: average flowering time, S3S4 alleles, compatibility group III
Tieton: average flowering time, S3S9 alleles, compatibility group XVI
And now my modest opinion.
I don’t understand why you in the United States don’t opt for the Pearl series varieties, since they are really wonderful, and compatible with each other.
Black, Burgundy, Ebony and Radiance Pearl are fantastic cherries, available in many nurseries, and I don’t understand why you don’t value these varieties.
Eddie, do not hesitate to ask any questions you have, since you must have all the parameters well tied, to avoid making mistakes.
I see that many of you are not very clear about the issue of pollination of the different varieties of cherry trees.
If there are two or three members , who ask me for information about cherry tree pollination, I promise to explain all the details in detail, so that you understand it very easily and with a “good and professional” pollination chart .
Not the pollination chart that offer the nurseries, which have two drawbacks:
CAvocado , definitely graft over the Stella cherry, easily the worst cherry I have ever tried, horrible selection! Where you are in far nor-cal the Rainier’s should be fine. I do not believe you need another cherry with your amount of trees as they are delicious but can get old faster than most fruits.Cherries are very easy to graft and I can get you scions to graft over the horrible Stella. PM me in January. And the fact that your tree is large already makes it even easier. I suggest bark grafts, easy and produce fast results!
I will also have peach scion for you to upgrade those Elbertas. Your Santa Rosa plum should be self fruitful, so hopefully you have a properly labeled tree. As well Santa Rosa pollinates the very excellent Flavor Supreme pluot.
Good luck, Jon.
Thanks Jon! I guess I have to get good at grafting by January.
Luckily my bing cherry is on a rootstock that suckers like crazy…I have upwards of 50 three to five feet tall…plenty of “test sujects.”
With the Santa Rosa, the tree was supposed to be an ultra-dwarf, it’s not. It is around 9 years old, like the bing and multigraft, so it should be established now. For the past two years tree has seemed to be on the decline and I’m always noticing another dead twig. In terms of fruit set, the whole tree goes white in bloom, and even under perfect conditions, only 2-3 plums form.
I have another much smaller Santa Rosa plum at a place down by Santa Rosa and it always gets loaded. Unlike the other, there’s many other plums nearby. Their fruit are similar.
No, not really. Once winter is past things dry up pretty well. Although we have clay so the soil itself doesn’t drain well, our area is mountainous, and with little truly flat ground, water can usually drain to somewhere. Then our clay gets a chance to dry out.
I plan on trying out those ph testing stips soon, but until then, I have always figured being acidic because before my mini orchard, it had been a forest with a lot of Douglas Fur, Azaleas, and rhododendrons in it.
I have actually looked at the Pearl series a bit, have you tried them yet? I’ve found where to buy Black, Burgundy, and Ebony Pearl so they do interest me now. I hear Burgundy and Ebony have some canker resistance.
After hearing about canker on cherries being a thing, turns out my bing cherry has been battling canker for around 5 years now.
Hi again Eddie.
You don’t need to take the Ph exam, I already have enough data.
If there was azaleas and rhododendrons, your Ph will be between 5.5 and 6.5, but since there is clay, you need a rootstock suitable for heavy soils, and there is no better one than Rootpac-R.
My friend Phil, he’s from Alabama, he has very heavy soils, he’s using Rootpac-R rootstock and he’s tremendously happy with it.
for cherry tree , you must perform an intermediate graft of Adara or Monrepos plum.
Eddie, the Pearl series of cherries are incredibly good varieties, on a commercial level they are much more interesting than Selah or Tieton, since they have good resistance to cracking.
Very important information:
I have three varieties grafted :
Ebony pearl
Black Pearl
Burgundy Pearl
They are very young plants and have not yet gone into production.
The important fact is that the fourth variety of the series:
Radiance Pearl
It shows incompatibility in graft whit Adara and Monrepos plum trees, and it is necessary to use classic cherry rootstock such as Prunus Mahaleb or Mazzard.
The four varieties are true gems, since they have outstanding behavior (all the good qualities of a good cherry tree)
They produce large caliber cherries.
They fruit properly without overloading the harvest (this is very important)
They have good resistance to cracking.
They are very sweet and tasty
They are very firm, so they are crunchy in the mouth, and they have a long post-harvest life.
Ebony and Burgundy Pearl (Black and Radiance I don’t know) show good resistance to bacterial canker.
Here in Europe we don’t have that problem but for you it is a nightmare.
Don’t underestimate the Radiance Pearl bicolor variety, it is an extremely good variety.
I think they usually have it in this nursery.
Mehrabian nursery
To get you started in the world of cherries, the 4 varieties of the Pearl series are highly recommended.
Zaiger has excellent varieties, but it is very difficult for American hobbyists to obtain them.
Royal Brynn, is one of the best in the Royal series
Make that Louisiana @Jose-Albacete, not Alabama, assuming I’m the Phil referenced, but for the purposes of this rootstock conversation it is close enough!
@CAvocado
With much expense I bought some peaches on Rootpac-R from Sierra Gold Nurseries in Yuba, CA. 5 tree minimum order. I got 6. With shipping it was $300. They were second year grafted trees, so maybe 30 inches tall.
I removed the peach variety that came with the rootstock and grafted scion to them.
If you’ve seen my posts in the Weather thread you’d know I’ve already gotten 40 inches of rain this year here. At least for now I am not seeing any issues with the trees.
Alkaline soils here. Blueberries, azaleas, and rhododendron to well here as well.
Yeahhhh , Mr. Cajun.
The two states have very similar names and they are confused.
Phil, if azaleas, blueberries and rhododendrons grow on your land, it is absolutely impossible for you to have an alkaline Ph, at most you will have a Ph of 6.5 to 7, but more it is impossible.
That would be considered a soil with a neutral Ph, and that is very good, but in neutral soils there can perfectly well be clay and that is when there is poor drainage and root asphyxiation problems, and for cases of complicated soils (all kinds of complications) there is the rootstock. Rootpac-R, its commercial name is “Replantpac”, since it is used to replant farms where other rootstocks have not survived.
Rootpac-R, it’s like a fucking Abrams tank.
Phil , show Eddie a photo of your cherry grafted this spring into Rootpac-R, I know he’ll like it.
Hi Jose I’m looking to plant a small commercial orchard in Western Oregon. I currently grow peaches, apples and pears, but have never managed the cherries and have not had any experience with modern varieties. My parents grew cherries for 30 years, but the trees were grown for cheap labor and brining. 10mx10m spacing, about 20 feet tall, varieties were Van and Lambert. Before we purchased the land there was about 10ha of cherries. We decided to call it quits on the orchard after insurance companies stopped insuring pick your own customers on ladders. Van was also a bit too early and would crack terribly about 1 out of 3 years, but after July 1 we have very little chance of rain until mid September. So Lambert usually made it fine.
So anything Bing +5ish should be just fine. Pollination can also be an issue some years so self fertility would be a bonus. Currently I’m looking at Tamara and Selah. Selah is a bit hard to obtain from nurseries because it’s stem is easily removed and was not popular with grower, but I prefer the look of stemless cherries so that’s fine. I do have a
So finally the question. Bloom charts from Oregon are all over the place when it comes to Tamara from early to late. So in your experience will Selah make a decent pollenizer for Tamara?
Oh and Sweetheart is the only very late variety available.
Hi Evenfall.
Yes, the old cherry tree formation systems are totally obsolete, and replaced by the new tree structure formation systems, which have two advantages:
Avoid using collection with ladders or mechanical scaffolding.
High density of trees per hectare, since the plantation framework is much smaller
Due to your climate because it does not usually rain in the middle of the campaign, you are interested in semi-late and late varieties.
Selah ripens around the Bing dates, and Tamara about 5 days later, both varieties are excellent.
The cherry tree pollination charts in the United States are a real disaster hahahahaha, and very difficult to understand.
Of course Selah is a magnificent pollinator for Tamara, look at the pollination chart that I use, it is the one prepared by the autonomous government of Aragon, with the collaboration of the Aula Dei research center, and the CITA (Agri-Food Research and Technology Center of Aragon)
For Selah to pollinate Tamara, they must meet these two parameters:
As you can see in the pollination chart, Tamara and Selah, both are from the mid-flowering period, Tamara belongs to the incompatibility group XVIII, and Selah is from the self-fertile group and universal pollinator of all varieties from the mid-flowering period, so Selah is a fantastic pollinator for Tamara.
Lambert and Van are two really disgusting varieties (with all due respect), and Selah and Tamara are two wonderful varieties.
If you want to plant late varieties, forget about Sweetheart, it’s shit, it has all the bad characteristics of a bad cherry tree.
And yes , there are good late varieties, but you will have to buy them at the Davewilson retail nursery in Oregon, or order them directly from Davewilson.
I recommend these two self-fertile varieties:
-Royal Eddie
Patent and description
-Royal Helen
I have Royal Helen and Royal Eddie in my orchard and they are both incredibly good.
Please if you have any questions ask me and I will help you.
Many thanks! You’re a fantastic source of knowledge. I’ve been looking at the two Royals as well but the self fertility of them seems to be up in the air. Dave Wilson and the patents list them as self sterile but they pollinate each other, but every other source lists them as self fertile. I imagine you have so many pollenizer varieties around you may not be able to speak to that issue. It seems that getting them directly from Dave Wilson might be the only option and they have 100 tree per variety minimum, so I’ll probably add a block of them in 2027. I haven’t seen them from retail sources to trial them, but I’ll look around more.
I also found a source for Cowiche, which I didn’t see you speak about at all, but looks like it fits your criteria of good varieties, so I’m going to throw in a couple rows of that. Ripens at about the same time as Tamara, so it fits my labor and marketing needs. It’s from the same WSU breeding program as Tieton, Selah and Benton, but there is very little information about it.
Another note, it’s interesting to see the different ripening dates in different areas. Selah supposedly ripens just before Lapins in the Northwest US. Usually listed as Bing +10-12. The release document has it at +8, but supposedly most experience was that it was a few days later than that. I do have one Selah tree, but it probably won’t fruit for a couple more years. I believe Bing timing is quite a bit different in California than the NW, so that might be similar.
I’m sure I could also do more crack resistant early varieties, Benton and the Pearls, but those ripen around my wife’s birthday, and she said we’re not harvesting on her birthday .
Hi handsomefarmer.
You have mentioned one of the cherry varieties that I like the most of all the varieties that I have in my orchard, which is Utah Giant, this variety is incredibly good, since it produces large-caliber fruits (32 mm and more), it is very crunchy in the mouth, and in terms of taste quality, it is extremely sweet with a powerful flavor, it is a variety that I love.
Unfortunately Utah Giant is not a variety for everyone, since my climate is very similar to that of California, with very hot summers and without any rain, since of all the varieties I have tested, Utah Giant is the most susceptible to cracking, and it suffers of cracking with the piss of a sparrow .
You make me tremendously envious looking at the photograph of the Coral Champagne variety, since it is a variety that I do not have in my orchard , I know perfectly well that it is a really excellent variety ( Top Variety ) , and I am wishing to graft this variety .
Regarding Royal Helen hahaha, here in Europe there is a tremendous dispute with this variety, since it is a late maturing variety and competes, speaking in boxing terms, with two Italian “heavy weights”, which are Big Star and Sweet Stephany (both from the University of Bologna).
My Italian neighbors boast that Sweet Stephany is the largest cherry in the world (Guinness record), but I already told you that you should not trust the publications of breeders or nurserymen, since Royal Helen is an “INFINITELY” better variety , than its Italian opponents, and since I have all three varieties in my orchard, I have been able to verify this year after year.
Royal Helen, from my point of view, is the best late-ripening variety.
This year I have grafted two hyper-late maturing German varieties:
They are two varieties that have no competition in their ripening dates, they are very promising, but I cannot give an opinion on them until I have tried them from my orchard .
It is a pleasure for me to participate in this forum and share my experiences with you.
Hi again Evenfall.
But for the love of God, of course I know everything about each variety I introduce into my orchard.
Both Royal Eddie and Royal Helen are self-fertile varieties.
I give you all the data regarding flowering, since they are the same for both varieties.
Flowering data of Royal Eddie and Royal Helen cherry trees:
Early flowering time
S1S4 alleles
Genotype: Self-fertile and universal pollinators of all early flowering varieties
They are sisters to Selah and Tieton, and come from the same breeding program.
Two aspects to take into account between these two varieties:
Very similar caliber (medium caliber for Kiona 31 millimeters, medium caliber for Cowiche 32 millimeters)
Pollination:
Cowiche is self-incompatible, medium flowering time, with S5S9 alleles, Selah would be a good pollinator
Kiona, it is self-fertile, medium flowering time, S4S9 alleles, magnificent pollinator for Tamara (they are very synchronous)
I would kill to get these two varieties for my orchard, since I am extremely interested in getting them (I am asking a nursery if they sell in small quantities), we will see if I can get them.
Yes indeed, depending on the weather conditions, the ripening of the cherries can vary, in warm climates the harvest is brought forward, and in colder climates it is delayed a few days, that is logical and happens with all fruit genres.
Regarding the early maturing varieties, I would recommend the much earlier varieties since the price in the market is much higher, and if I had to recommend any variety it would be these:
Royal Tioga (has excellent features)
Self-fertile
Good fruit caliber (28-30 millimeters and more)
Very good flavor and sweetness (16º brix)
Crack resistant
Matures 21 days before Bing
Royal Brynn (the best variety in the Royal series without a doubt), it is the improved Royal Ansel variety, if you can get this variety I highly recommend it.
Self-sterile, pollinates with Royal Tioga
Tremendous fruit caliber (32-34 mm and more, 14 grams per cherry and much more)
Excellent flavor with 18º brix, and very crunchy texture
Crack resistant
Ripens about 7 to 9 days before Bing
If you get these 4 varieties (Royal Tioga, Royal Brynn, Kiona and Cowiche) you will be tremendously happy with them.
Ok, does anyone know what’s going on with my cherries? Every year almost all my cherries on all my trees drop just before ripening. You’re all constantly talking about how lapins overcrops, but mine will hardly produce 20 cherries in a year.
handsomefarmer, with Royal Tioga you will have guaranteed success, it only needs 500 hours of cold, Royal Brynn is an incredibly good variety and it does not have an excessive requirement, 750 hours.
Regarding Cowiche and Kiona, there is no information on the internet regarding their requirement for cold hours.
Eddie, of course I know why your Lapins cherry tree, does not produce cherries properly , because it is not Lapins, and I’ll bet my balls hahahahahaha.
The yellow cherries that fall to the ground are unpollinated cherries, but the reason why I am sure that your cherry tree is not Lapins is because of the shape of the branches.
Look :
The Lapins variety is the most motherfucker to perform pruning of the tree’s formation structure, since it does not emit lateral branches. Lapins has a tremendous tendency to vertical growth without emitting lateral branches, even when pruning is carried out, the branches that emits also go upwards, and not laterally, Lapins grows upward like a cypress and must be forced a lot with pruning to produce lateral branches , unlike your cherry tree.
Most likely it was mislabeled in the nursery.
It has solutions and that is to plant or graft two branches of your supposed Lapins, with a universal pollinator cherry tree from the early flowering season and another universal pollinator cherry tree from the mid-flowering season.
.
