Rubus Breeding

Boizeau · December 21, 2020, 2:27am

Another shameless plug:
I’ve got about 20
Himalayan x Evergreen blackberry hybrids.
Fruit characteristics should fall between the 2 parents .
Evergreen is far less aggressive
but I prefer the Himalayan flavor, which is als less seedy.
Happy to trade for other Rubus, or sell for $3 each plus postage.
Probably $4-$6.

Boizeau · December 23, 2020, 5:23pm

Wondering what the ploidy of Tayberry is.
Might be a good cross back to the Raspberry.
Also
Know any good sources for a female flowered raspberry to use as a seed parent?

Drew51 · December 23, 2020, 5:45pm

Hexaploid.

So is Marion. I crossed them but failed to germinate seeds. I will try again.

Boizeau · December 23, 2020, 5:50pm

Marion x Tayberry
That would be a good idea.

Drew51 · December 23, 2020, 6:19pm

At least easier to cross! A Marberry! For me Marion when ripened properly is as fine as it gets for blackberries. Newberry is also good, but I still place that 2nd. Tay’s are so different. It is hardier than Marion. So could give a touch more hardiness. Flavor would be interesting. hard to tell, but it has to be good. I want to do to practice also. I have the least experience with blackberries.

Boizeau · December 23, 2020, 7:44pm

Please let me know what is the most compatible cross with the Salmonberry
Rubus Spectablis.
I have a really good one in my back yard.

Fusion_power · December 23, 2020, 8:19pm

A hexaploid crossed to a diploid produced a tetraploid which is usually viable. The problem with this approach is that often the genetics show disruption with low seed/fruit production.

Boizeau · December 24, 2020, 5:51pm

I’d like to find a ready hybrid of the Salmonberry.

Drew51 · December 24, 2020, 6:08pm

That I don’t know! Getting breeding info is tough. I lost all my links in a hard drive crash.

Boizeau · December 25, 2020, 2:09pm

It’s mostly like a Raspberry.

Ginda · January 3, 2021, 2:39am

Mmmm, two of my favorite berries for jam. I don’t believe I’ve ever had either fresh.

nil · January 3, 2021, 5:41am

Determining_Ploidy_Level_and_Nuclear_DNA_Content_i.pdf (191.7 KB)
[23279834 - HortScience] Chromosome Numbers of Rubus Cultivars at the National Clonal Germplasm Repository (1).pdf (38.3 KB)

Boizeau · January 3, 2021, 6:03pm

It looks like Tayberry would be compatible with the Marion Berry.
I’d like to make the cross, but may have to beg for seeds from another.

Boizeau · January 4, 2021, 7:58pm

They have the same number of chromosomes.
Silvan is another one.

Boizeau · January 5, 2021, 9:52pm

Korean Wineberry would be a good raspberry cross. The fruits are beautiful. Sweet, but not as intense as the Raspberry.
They grow well in the Puget Sound lowlands- even reseed themselves a bit.

Keen101 · January 16, 2021, 5:40am

has anyone here had success with recreating the Rubus odoratus x Rubus parviflorus ( [Rubus x fraseri] - Fraser’s Raspberry)?

I have plans to work on an overall raspberry breeding project. I am growing out some of the best store bought Driscoll’s for the domestic side.

For wild raspberries I am highly interested in Rubus deliciousus and the others in the Anoplobatus subclade, which include R. odoratus, R. parviflorus, R. trilobus, R. neomexicanus, and possibly R. bartonianus.

Keen101 · January 16, 2021, 5:54am

Have you ordered from ARS GRIN before? What is your procedure to keep the cuttings alive until spring and get them to root successfully? What would one do here in Colorado with a cold, dry climate in winter?

Boizeau · January 16, 2021, 3:32pm

I’ve mentioned this earlier.
I have a superior selection of
Rubus Spectabilis in my backyard
It’s a good candidate for breeding
I think.
They root very easily from cuttings
Like willow.
I just spent an hour trimming the Ivy away from it.
Growing in a bank full of Ivy.

Keen101 · January 17, 2021, 5:09pm

Caesar:

I used Fragaria vesca “Reine Des Vallees”. The idea was to replicate Luther Burbank’s attempted Strawberry-Raspberry hybrid ( http://www.bulbnrose.x10.mx/Heredity/Burbank/Burbank_raspXstraw.html ). He succeeded in getting several plants, but they were unproductive. My idea was that he probably used a diploid red raspberry with the octaploid garden strawberry. A diploid strawberry like F. vesca would have been a better match (both Fragaria and Rubus have a base chromosome count of 7, and together with Rosa and Duchesnea, they constitute the edible members of the Rosoideae subfamily). I’m not the only one who’s attempted this recently; a guy in Australia is actually growing out some hybrid plants himself. We’ve been sharing info on his own blog post: https://living-mudflower.blogspot.com/2018/04/strawberry-raspberry-hybrids.html

Honestly, the idea is not too wild. If successful, the outcome would probably be Rubus-like. They seem to have a similar fruit structure: the main body of the strawberry fruit seems homologous to a Rubus fruit core, while the achenes seem homologous to the Rubus’ drupelets.

Wow! Thanks for sharing this!

I had the same idea that i had wanted to do someday! You two are my heros. I had suspected that using a diploid wild strawberry could work if Burbank’s attempt had worked as well as reported. I’m glad you have found this to be the case.

What generation are you on? F2? F3? I am curious to see how this get’s on. Will any seed or cuttings be available from either of you in the near future?

Caesar · January 22, 2021, 7:03pm

I’ve ordered from GRIN before, but mostly in-vitro potatoes. The available rubus propagules were seeds when last I checked (quite a while ago), and the order I placed this last spring has yet to arrive. I placed an order for kiwi cuttings around the same time, and they just arrived yesterday.

Here in Puerto Rico, I just stick my cuttings in good potting soil, water and wait. Nothing special, maybe scratch the lower bark off and dip ‘em in hormone, and perhaps bag ‘em while they sprout. In a cool dry climate, I might be tempted to start them indoors in a propagation tub, but I don’t know for sure if that’s the best course of action.

⁂

Regarding the experiment, my last attempt was a few years ago. I’ve yet to see results, but I only dabbed the pollen on the flowers on three occasions in the same year. My next course of action was mentor pollination (which I’m convinced would almost certainly give results), but I wasn’t sure how to kill the pollen without destroying it (I need it to be incapable of fertilizing while still being metabolically active). The Raspberry plant died in the interim, so now I’m on the lookout for another primocane raspberry to attempt the experiment again this year. It’s a bit tough to synchronize the flowering too. This time, I’ll try raspberry pollen on strawberry instead of the other way around.

If I get results, I’d like to distribute to other hobbyists. I wanna see what the plant breeders can do with this material.