Rubus Breeding

has anyone here had success with recreating the Rubus odoratus x Rubus parviflorus ( [Rubus x fraseri] - Fraser’s Raspberry)?

I have plans to work on an overall raspberry breeding project. I am growing out some of the best store bought Driscoll’s for the domestic side.

For wild raspberries I am highly interested in Rubus deliciousus and the others in the Anoplobatus subclade, which include R. odoratus, R. parviflorus, R. trilobus, R. neomexicanus, and possibly R. bartonianus.

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Have you ordered from ARS GRIN before? What is your procedure to keep the cuttings alive until spring and get them to root successfully? What would one do here in Colorado with a cold, dry climate in winter?

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I’ve mentioned this earlier.
I have a superior selection of
Rubus Spectabilis in my backyard
It’s a good candidate for breeding
I think.
They root very easily from cuttings
Like willow.
I just spent an hour trimming the Ivy away from it.
Growing in a bank full of Ivy.

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Wow! Thanks for sharing this!

I had the same idea that i had wanted to do someday! You two are my heros. I had suspected that using a diploid wild strawberry could work if Burbank’s attempt had worked as well as reported. I’m glad you have found this to be the case.

What generation are you on? F2? F3? I am curious to see how this get’s on. Will any seed or cuttings be available from either of you in the near future?

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I’ve ordered from GRIN before, but mostly in-vitro potatoes. The available rubus propagules were seeds when last I checked (quite a while ago), and the order I placed this last spring has yet to arrive. I placed an order for kiwi cuttings around the same time, and they just arrived yesterday.

Here in Puerto Rico, I just stick my cuttings in good potting soil, water and wait. Nothing special, maybe scratch the lower bark off and dip ‘em in hormone, and perhaps bag ‘em while they sprout. In a cool dry climate, I might be tempted to start them indoors in a propagation tub, but I don’t know for sure if that’s the best course of action.

Regarding the experiment, my last attempt was a few years ago. I’ve yet to see results, but I only dabbed the pollen on the flowers on three occasions in the same year. My next course of action was mentor pollination (which I’m convinced would almost certainly give results), but I wasn’t sure how to kill the pollen without destroying it (I need it to be incapable of fertilizing while still being metabolically active). The Raspberry plant died in the interim, so now I’m on the lookout for another primocane raspberry to attempt the experiment again this year. It’s a bit tough to synchronize the flowering too. This time, I’ll try raspberry pollen on strawberry instead of the other way around.

If I get results, I’d like to distribute to other hobbyists. I wanna see what the plant breeders can do with this material.

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I will try wineberry x R. arcticus (allfieldberries) this year hopefully.

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By the way : does anyone know what blackberry variants are 8X? I am currently germinating cloudberries (8X) from seeds ordered from Russia. My original plan was to pollinate female clones with Loganberry and Tayberry (both 6X) and get 7X offpring (like boysenberry), but I am starting to think that crossing with a 8X blackberry would be better.

Kiowa would be cool if it is 8X.

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Not sure about the octaploids (I think “Jenner” is one such variety), but the Arkansas breeding program seems to be tetraploid. If you go with those, you could further improve hexaploid progeny with other hexaploids (or with diploids to get tetraploids).

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I’m not really up on Rubus ploidy
It’s been posted on this forum.

Seems like a lot of the
Raspberry x Blackberry hybrids are
Hexaploid.

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I posted it on another thread, but new research from 2019 shows that Rubus hawaiensis and Rubus spectabilis are sister species genetically. Probably would make an interesting hybrid.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338085121_Target_Capture_Sequencing_Unravels_Rubus_Evolution

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Is this knowledge on R. odoratus self-incompatible from experience or is there a source where i can read up on this? I would love to read any scientific articles that mention this. Thanks!

I have a suspicion that most of the species in the Anoplobatus clade are self-incompatible (though perhaps they produce berries at a low percentage if no other pollen is available. Something like 2-4% like in other wild fruit plants like Solanum pennellii?

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The Western trailing blackberry is a good candidate. Has both male and female separate plants, so hybrids would be easier.

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I see you are in zone 5A and so am I . I have a seedling blackberry that needs a pollinator . Useful in breeding crosses . Some years it overlaps with raspberries . Its first bloom it did not and no berries . It does not overlap with its parent . I have planted seed and hope to see some sprout this year .I am in Illinois . I could share a start if you are interested .

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Thanks Jerry, I appreciate the offer, however i am not using blackberries, only raspberries. Maybe someday someone will breed a sweeter less tart Blackberry that i will like. I have not yet tried berries like loganberry, tayberry, or the like. Maybe i would like those.

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Yes that would make breeding easier.

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I’ve been looking for cultivars selected for flavor and haven’t had luck, so recently purchased two random samples for breeding should I be lucky enough that taste is worth it. If still available please let me know what you’d like for a few cuttings.

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About a month ago Driscoll’s had “Sweetest Batch” TM cultivar in grocery stores. Bought after many disappointments this year as last chance for any but early crop. Recommended.

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I’d like to get a female flowered Raspberry
If there’s any around.
Also
A good fall bearing raspberry.

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Joan J work? It’s self-fertile and on primocane fruits June-mid October for me, but I am quite a bit South of you. I have a couple of other options all primocane, please DM. I haven’t figured out how here yet.

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Did you create the hybrid?
Sounds good.

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