Luecodermis:
Occidentalis
The big difference I notice is the thorns. You can see Luecodermis having so many, while Occidentalis has only a few, see one at my pinky, ring finger, index.
Occidentalis
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R. leucodermis is native in my location (Iām in Washington state), and I wouldnāt have guessed thatās what you have based on the picture. Iāve never seen one so thorny as that. I wonder if you were given a mislabeled plant or maybe itās just an outlier and not an average specimen of the species.
I guess it could be an outlier. Iām in Maryland and the East coast Occidentalis is all over, so I have a lot of samples to compare it to.
I bought it from Native Food Nursery out of Oregon. It was a 3 pack and all were the same looking with the thorns. Only 1 survived and that was because I moved it to a spot that gets afternoon sun. It didnāt grow well in full sun and the humidity I think.
Cheers
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I just took a peak on iNaturalist and it looks like there is a range of thorniness with yours falling within that range (though I didnāt see any examples more extreme than yours). I wonder if the ones in my area just tend to be on the other end of the range. Iām gonna have to start inspecting more closelyā¦
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This is interesting. Too bad there is no market for thorny ones 
.
I might try and get some more now though, since I was worried all Western ones were super thorny. Thanks
I have wild black rasps growing on our farm. I found them to be more productive, larger and tastier than my domesticated varieties, which are MacBlack and Bristol. They have canes like @Jessizzles have in the last pic, with slightly thorny purple canes. I need to take some and plant them in more locations.
We also have wild blackberries, but the fruit is small, tart and the canes have nasty thorns. Thatās why Iāve planted several thornless varieties.
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Bob, could i convince you to dig me a few of those wild black raspberries or take some cuttings? i put in 5 amethyst purple raspberries from Hartmannās last spring i could trade cuttings of to send you in trade. i donāt have a black raspberry yet.
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Oh there is market for thorny ones. I live in a city and specifically plant fun thorny things like that in certain parts of my property, so that if some unfriendly dude were to climb fence at 2am, they would get funneled towards the places where I will reliably detect them.
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Iām trying trifoliate orange to discourage the local, lumbering, zombie rats (ādeerā).
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Sure, sent you a PM.
Have you noticed any difference in fruit taste, size, ripening time and such?
The western one hasnāt produced a lot of fruit, only a couple canes come up every year. I think there were only about 10 total berries. The taste was good, I donāt remember it being anything special. Iām certain that it would grow a lot better in its more natural region. The western one fruit wise was a little bigger, but I only had a small amount to try.
My native eastern ones are a lot more tastier I think. Since they are wild though, they are quite small as seen in the picture from last year. I believe the eastern ones produced earlier but I donāt recall. Right now, the western one hasnāt budded out while my native one has.
Perhaps I havenāt found the best soil to grow them in. Iāve tried grow bags in regular potting soil and the ground which is mostly clay for me.
Iām not sure how reliable, but I did read when I was researching the two species some years back that the western one was used as the basis for the blue raspberry flavoring seen now in candy and stuff.
Last caveat is Iāve never had any black cap cultivars to compare against. Seemed only berry size would be the difference for me since I have access to so many wild ones.
Hope this helps
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The berries in the above image are not ripe; I would say about a week from full ripeness --then flavor comparisons would be more accurate.
Perhaps they could have stayed a bit longer. But they were still good. The wild one son my yard get dappled light and ripen a little bit, I grab anything that comes off easy for snacking and keeping for homemade ice cream
What are your experience with disease resistance on these? I grow a lot of regular raspberries and blackberries, and only have a few indivudual plants of Glen Coe and Black Jewel, and they seem to attract way more pests diseases than my regular raspberries.
the most reliable way for me to tell is to look at the little pedicels holding the flowers or berries. leucodermis has hooked thorns on its pedicels and occidentalis has straight thorns on its pedicels