Just thought I’d ask for some perspective from experienced growers. If I’m trying to maintain my fruit trees at 6 - 8 foot maximum in height, is allowing the tree to produce fruit early on really that bad of a thing?
I mean if I’m looking for a small tree anyways, does producing a crop early in the trees life cycle have other downsides besides the tree never attaining its normal full size?
Does a tree runting out result in far less fruit produced every year compared to a tree that was prevented from early cropping, but kept small by heavy summer pruning?
It’s just that I hear everyone cautioning against stunting, or runting out a tree by allowing early production, but at the same time most home growers are looking to grow smaller semi/dwarf trees in most cases anyways these days. So, what’s the real scoop on this for backyard growers.
I can’t tell you for sure, but based on my limited experience of some dwarf apples deer kept munching and then I let fruit early, you can wind up with a weaker less productive tree over time. My trees never really thickened up the trunks or developed the branching with the density and positions I would have liked. It wasn’t just the vertical height that I lost. The energy went into fruit, so the trees didn’t have the vigor to get to the growth, shape and strength I wanted. They weren’t just short, they were whimpy. Ultimately they were removed for that and some other reasons, such as I was tired of feeding the deer and wanted taller trees to try to get some fruit out of their range.
Based on that experience, if I wanted 8-foot tall trees, I would remove fruit (or allow very little) and use summer pruning to keep the overall height down while allowing the vigor to help me build scaffolds where I wanted and with the amount of ramification and ultimately fruiting spurs, etc. that would sustain a relatively good crop for the size of the tree. I’m pretty sure having more/better branching would have helped the trees develop thicker, stronger trunks as well.
Absent deer or some such issue runting out isn’t normally a big issue. And is really only an issue on really dwarfing rootstocks, smaller than M9, like M27.
If you thin well and have a decently vigorous tree it won’t stunt the tree much if any.
Runting out is serious only on really dwarf stocks and basically unthinned.
Runting out? Here in 8B/ 9 Heat zone that means a root stock that can not crop correctly due to the stress load.
Was talking with a U of F professor about little used West Coast low chill apples. Pettygill does not hack it here. Does not even survive a year, Gordon is still alive after 2 years. But it is growing{and blooming} at a glacial pace. I’d call that runting.
If you want midget trees; use very dwarfing rootstock. M27 is a great tiny producer.
Everyone is fixated on apples, the preponderance of my trees are stone fruit. Most stone fruit trees sold in Canada come on rootstock that is by no means extremely dwarfing.
There is quite a bit of research on carbohydrate partitioning in peaches and acceptable crop load based on the tree age. But overall, I think controlling fertilization and watering is more important than cropping at early stages. On this end there is quite a bit of guidance on monitoring tree growth and adjusting crop load through water, fertilizer and pruning. Look at some of the examples from drew who maintains his trees at 7 or 8ft.
when letting a young tree have to high a fruitload. It will thicken up the framework less. And generally thus grow less. This does not have to be “runting out”
But is more a question of.
Do you want 2 extra fruit this year. Or 10 extra fruit next year. (or do you want 20 extra fruit this year vs 100 next year, depending on tree size etc)
This would be an example with a vigorous rootstock. They don’t tend to “runt out” but just grow slower. Will stil reach “normale mature size” (especially if a late freeze lowers crop load for you. Or if overbearing leads to a alternating year) But will just take longer to reach good crops/mature size when having to high a fruit load every year / early on.
on a dwarf rootstock. Different things can lead to “runting out”. (pot grown, summer pruning etc)
This to me means (can’t find a clear definition) truly “runting out”
The tree’s making lots of fruitwood/buds but virtually no extension growth. This gives a bad ration of leaves/fruit. Giving smaller and smaller fruits if the runting out/overbearing is left to continue. And generally leading to “unhealthy” trees. If have seen a few of those tree’s. Some spur pruning or a year (or more) of heavy thinning. Can bring those trees around.
I tend to look for ~8" of extension growth or more. If it gets below that on dwarf stocks i might take measures to avoid “runting out”
for example: some of the “runts” if seen where M9 apple trees on more sandy soil. Around year 5. Still being less than 5ft tall. Only being strong enough to support 10-15 full sized apples. But having 50-100 spurs. And lots of thin “blind” wood. With few leaves.
You already know not much rootstock help is coming then. Fixated? Well yes probably. Stone Fruit growing can be like welfare for Plum Curillo here. Plus our selection of heritage stone fruit is rather blah at best. Not to mention chill hours stops a lot of stone fruit growing. Sudden Peach Death is really rampant as well. Tossed plenty of peach trees before I found out you have to administer fertilizer with an eye dropper here. Frankly apples are so much easier. There are dozens of great heritage varieties. And are popular sellers to boot.
I was reading P.14 probably did not do as good as it should of in USA trails because in Poland they have figured out thinning flowers sends the tree back into a vegetative growth mode. They claim it is better to let the tree to decide what fruitlets to drop.
Luckily Plum Curillo is not really an issue in my location.
I do have my share of apple trees already. The ones on my section of property along the fence around my house are all short espallier on semi dwarf stock such as M7. The rest of the apples are unfenced and away from the house. These trees are mostly on crabapple rootstock as they need the height to be grown above the deer browse line.
Almost all of my stone fruit is either UFO or fan trained espallier along my fenced area around the house. The few plum trees that are not fenced are on myrobalan to have some size so the deer cannot strip them.
Pears around the house are mostly espalied on Quince. Any pears not in the fenced area are either on seedling or OHxF87 rootstock to avoid the deer as well.
I had one Santa Rosa Plum left. And apparently the cold killed the scion and took our Kieffer pear. I have the Plum rootstock surviving. There are numerous wild plums; but looks like not a one has fruit on them.
If you are a grape, blueberry, blackberry, Apple and some Banana’s you’ll do well.
Look into St. Julien root stock. I got a peach on St.Julien last year, end of the season I wasn’t too happy with the vigor because the shoots barely compared to my other peaches, now it has close to two and half dozen dime sized fruits and I didn’t have to prune it except removing a scaffold which broke after a lawnmower incident.
My plan is to fruit the tree to the max whatever it can hold onto (even on second leaf), if it continues this behavior Its a winner imho, 3-4 dozen fruits per year from a tree is great for a family. Less pruning, no sprays who doesn’t want such a tree
I guess it could be a case of curiosity killing the cat, but I can’t resist wanting to sample the fruit of the cherry, plum, and pluot varieties that look to have fruit showing for the first time.
I, personally is all for getting the fruit if the tree ends up setting and sustaining the fruit. I have kept the fruit set on dwarf peach and nectarines that were planted bareroot this spring. I’d say go for it.
