Should echinacea and Rudbeckia die back completely?

General Gardening
1

I started some echinecea (standard purpurea) and Rudbeckia ‘Goldstrum’ from seed in July. Set out plants in September. I did not get (or expect) first-year blooms, but in the past have been successful starting these types of perennials from seed in summer and getting blooms the next year.

However, they have zero green tissue at all at this point. They have died back completely. Are they alive? My older echinacea (several years old) die back, but there always remains a little green in the crown right near ground level - I don’t see that on these.

2

No green probably means dead. But, seedlings usually will come up.

3

No seedlings. They didn’t bloom.

4

Here, in Qc, my echinecea purpurea and my Rudbeckia die back every fall and come back every spring.

5

My coneflowers rarely have any green remaining once they go dormant. The new foliage in the spring comes up from pretty bare ground and is a striking reddish in color.

How big did the plants get during the growing season?

Scott

6

Maybe 6” - 9” across.