Southern apple growers - Outside of Liberty and William's Pride, what apples/crabapples do you recommend?

General Fruit Growing
#57

Looks like both Novamac and Freedom are in the Mid-Late Blooming group (which I hope helps with my type of late frosts)… and if you had both of those… You would have Sept/October covered pretty well with ripe apples.

My Early Mc would pollinate with them some anyway…(it is more Mid bloomer). but it blooms long, and would still be blooming when these start blooming, Probably about a week of overlap there…
The Early Mc gives me rip apples June 10 - July 22 (this year).

If my Akane tree works out… it ripens in August.

When I do start over at my new location… at least I have some new ideas here on what to try.

Thanks all.

TNHunter

#58

After I cut down three old Bradford Pears I inherited, all of a sudden my fireblight problems essentially disappeared, although I think we’re overdue for a perfect storm blight year. No FB problems here on Goldrush for last five years.

I use an “audition tree” where I graft a branch or twig of a variety I want to test before going whole hog. Belle de Boskoop hit a home run in audition, so got promoted to a whole tree.

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#59

@hambone… I sure hope getting rid of my Bradford pear… helps with my FB issues.

My nearest neighbor, about 1/2 mile away, has his driveway lined with Douglas Pear trees, similar to bradford, but not as prone to split. I hope that is far enough away, that it will not bother any pear or apple starts I try next.

that Belle de Boskoop sure sounds interesting… but that “Tripiloid” stuff scares me…

I have a pink flowering crab apple in my back yard…

And since for near 20 years, every apple that I planted to try and establish a pollinator for my Early Mc apple (well they all died of FB)… … and the only pollinator my Early Mc has had for most of that 20 years was a pink flowering crab…

IT worked… I got Early Mc apples thru all of that.

For someone that really only wants 2-3 apple trees at most… having a triploid in the mix, seems a bit risky. I guess if you intended to have 4-5 or more anyway, a triploid in the mix would work fine.

By the way on the mention of Crab Apple… my pink flowering crab saved the day for my Early Mc producing apples… for many years. I do like having a Crab around… the spring blooms are awesome… a sight to behold each year for sure.

But my current crab (pink flowering, came from Starks, not sure of the variety)… but the apples are tiny… small grape sized. Not worth harvesting at all.

Is there good Southern heat/humidity Crab Apple, that would pollinate Mid-Late blooming apples… that bears decent sized crab apples (1-2"), that have a least some sweet, with the tart ? Would love to have one I could actually pick and eat fresh and like. I can take the tartness, if there is a little sweet in there too.

TNHunter

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#60

That defeats the purpose of having apples that ripen late and keep all winter if they ripen early and don’t keep much.

But I observe no disease issues on “May Queen” so try that one for an early crop. Mollies Delicious ripe in August and doesn’t keep much but no disease issues.

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#61

I believe I’d put more ‘stock’ in ripening dates from NCSU or UT or UK or even Penn State…especially living in Tennessee. Perhaps Arkansas.

#62

I think this warning is really worth paying attention to. No matter how resistant to fireblight, etc… the tree is, if your fruit all rots on the tree (as my Goldrush is rotting right now) all you’ve grown is an unproductive tree. Bitter Rot resistance, Black Rot resistance, and White Rot resistance are rarely mentioned in the reviews. This thread is one I’ll be studying carefully as I replace a couple of apples. Novamac is rated susceptible by some. Note that my experience with terrible rots on Goldrush doesn’t match other more experienced growers.

#63

withdrawn

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#64

@blueberry… found this on TN extension site PB 746

Of course it list none of the disease resistant varieties we are looking at…

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PS… I would be perfectly happy with only my Early Mc… + one Apple that ripens in Aug/Sept, or early October, that stores well.

But I do try to stick to Paleo Diet guidelines (in the least restrictive phase of my eating plan)… Keto the majority of the time.

Apples are not Keto… but are OK on Paleo… in moderation… but even on Paleo you should really only eat fruit when it is in season… which does not include storing it in a cooler for months, and continuing to eat it. That works well for Standard American Diet… and if you can eat that and be healthy, long term… you are one of the lucky ones.

TNHunter

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#65

On the Freedom apple… for us Tennessee growers I noticed this… on ripening time…
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That bit of info above from the Univ of TN extension office… says that Freedom ripens with Delicious.

And that later chart that I found listing several apple varieties and ripening dates list this…

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So… looks like us TN growers of Freedom can expect it to ripen early-mid Sept.

Starkbro said Late Sept, OGW said Late Sept to Oct.

TNHunter

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#66

Good…such research can help everyone of us.
Compare to Delicious.
(Like and old peach chart I remember from long ago…“Elberta” -31 days…
some peach ripens 31 days before the favorite for many decades.
That sort of relationship is more accurate than trying to give 'ripening dates").

#67

I agree with the posts above regarding rot. It is real bad on Apple’s in my central AL yard. Just like @haldog, I’ll lose almost every gold rush to rot unless I enclose them in a Ziploc bag, and even then I still lose around 10%. Hooples seems worse and rots even with the bag. Grimes is a little better. Fuji about the same. I’ve got a real nice crop of Yates in bags coming on for the first time now and have yet to see any rot on those but it’s still early. Another thing hard to avoid for me is fireblight. None of the disease resistant apples I’ve grown can hold up against the FB pressure here. I’ve lost liberty, ark blk, Priscilla, will pride to FB. I spray strep now but I know y’all would rather not spray and I don’t blame you.

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#68

I lose Granny Smith to rots…(the years it actually sets fruit that is)…have for over 25 years. Planning to remove the tree after it’s replacement gets a good start.

Concerning Fuji…my 30 year old tree has a fair crop this year. I never spray it. It has had a little fireblight a time or three, but overall still a healthy tree.
I don’t suscribe to it’s “S” or “VS” rating in the above chart by TNHunter…it’s been among my healthier trees. Really, my ‘not macintosh’ tree is about the only one that looks better over the years.

Odysso red fleshed apple has not displayed any disease of any type.

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#69

There is an early Macintosh that is quite common in old orchards around here. Probably more than one but Jersey Mac may be one of if not THE early Mac variety I see. The key difference is that it’s a bit softer, but that could be the result of ripening under a stronger sun. There are several sports of Macintosh whose apples look less like the original than J. Mac does. Always the quest for a redder apple.

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#70

From… Early McIntosh - New England Apples

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My last one this year picked July 22.

TNHunter

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#71

I have never experienced this “rot” thing you all are talking about… This “Early Mc” apple that I have has been my only Apple tree to survive (long term so far) and produce fruit… and well it is very early.
June 10 - July 22 — it ripens fruit slowly a little at a time over a extended period (which I really like).

If you pick them when they first turn reddish, with perhaps a little green still showing they still taste very good, extra tart, very crisp, but some sweet too… I really like them when they are about as ripe as the one in the pic above, mostly red… still very crisp, but wow a explosion of flavor and some sweetness… If you let them sit on the counter a few days that red… will slowly turn to a deep reddish purple color and the flavor is still quite intense, but the flesh will soften up, to that very near something like a red delicious.

So my Early Mc has never experienced any of this Rot stuff… but that is because it ripens so early.

Do you think that I would have this rot problem on trees like NovaMac or Freedom which are reported to ripen early-mid September ?

Pretty sure I am going to have to replace my Gold Rush with something else… may just graft more Early Mc on it, perhaps some Freedom, Liberty, Enterprise ?

Replace the really late maturing apples with earlier maturing (disease resistant) varieties ?

Is that the best way to deal with this Rot issue ? avoid it by going with earlier apples ?

Thanks

TNHunter

#72

Here is one more Pic of my Early McIntosh apples from this spring…

Mac Apple

They are very pretty apples, and have had no spray ever, and still produce nice clean apples as you can see.

TNHunter

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#73

You may suffer from a lot more late, stone fruit destroying frost, but if you can grow apples like that without spray, you don’t have nearly the pest pressure we have in the northeast. Relatively soft apples like Macintosh get hammered by plum curc. and it is is exceptionally susceptible to apple scab. Most years, sooty blotch and flyspeck would make the apples here look much less appealing than yours.

Commercial growers here pretty much drive the sprayers through at least every two weeks to get apples pristine. They keep active fungicide on the fruit constantly right up to harvest.

For most home growers, two sprays in total produce sound fruit excepting the brown rot issue with stone fruit, which can be controlled at sites I manage with a single spray 2-4 weeks before ripening if you can get hold of some Indar.

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#74

@alan… spraying fungicides or pesticides is just not a option for me. It will not be done.

If that is the only way I can get nice clean late season apples… I will just grow something else instead (I have Jujube in place now, no fruit set this year yr 2, hopefully next year). Have my eye on planting persimmon too, for hopefully pest free fall crop.

Let me ask you all about this too… Crab Apples…

If all of these later season regular apples are going to require fungicides, pesticides, and still likely ROT on the tree… what about Crab Apples ?

Per Lucky_P… his Centennial Crabs are good eating, and finished ripening first week in August… and his Kerr Crab apples are starting to ripen now…

Would that be my best bet for (no spray) apples ?

Early Mc June 10 - July 22
Centennial - would probably ripen about the same time the Early Mc playout…
Kerr - starts up a little after Centennial finish.

Do you have the same pest and disease pressure with these Crabs, as you might a later season full size apple ?

Thanks

TNHunter

#75

I’m not telling you what you need to grow apples. You just showed me some that you didn’t spray, and that wouldn’t happen here, not that pristine. Yellow Delicious of the old strain seems like one that often bears useable fruit here without spray- but then, so does Goldrush and Fuji- even Red Delicious. It is just that some chemical intervention enhances the overall reward in terms of sound fruit and I consider it safe to use such things appropriately. Of course, further south and even inland from me, folks often can’t accomplish what we can here with 2 sprays.

Do you think insecticides are dangerous to your health? Check the graft on the lower right hand corner to compare the health of frequent pesticide sprayers compared to that of the average person in their states.

#76

I started by planting 20 apple varieties in 1990 - 1993.
Red delicious, Liberty, Arkansas Black, Fuji, and a standard tree I ordered to be “MacIntosh” but it isn’t…those most disease resistant. (Never got to sample Blue Pearmain as burning too close killed it second leaf.)

Having grafted a bunch of apples in past 5 years, I knoW some of them
I can grow without spray.

How about Liberty or Enterprise or Triumph? King David?
Maybe “white winter pearmain”…(a paternal grandmother to Mutsu/Crispin)…that can produce from Florida to Michigan…and at one time considered “best apple” in advertisements in the past?

Thick skinned apples that are “waxy” typically are good bets for disease resistance, bug resistance, and keeping qualities. Especially late fall varieties.

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