I think this warning is really worth paying attention to. No matter how resistant to fireblight, etc… the tree is, if your fruit all rots on the tree (as my Goldrush is rotting right now) all you’ve grown is an unproductive tree. Bitter Rot resistance, Black Rot resistance, and White Rot resistance are rarely mentioned in the reviews. This thread is one I’ll be studying carefully as I replace a couple of apples. Novamac is rated susceptible by some. Note that my experience with terrible rots on Goldrush doesn’t match other more experienced growers.
withdrawn
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@blueberry… found this on TN extension site PB 746
Of course it list none of the disease resistant varieties we are looking at…
PS… I would be perfectly happy with only my Early Mc… + one Apple that ripens in Aug/Sept, or early October, that stores well.
But I do try to stick to Paleo Diet guidelines (in the least restrictive phase of my eating plan)… Keto the majority of the time.
Apples are not Keto… but are OK on Paleo… in moderation… but even on Paleo you should really only eat fruit when it is in season… which does not include storing it in a cooler for months, and continuing to eat it. That works well for Standard American Diet… and if you can eat that and be healthy, long term… you are one of the lucky ones.
TNHunter
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On the Freedom apple… for us Tennessee growers I noticed this… on ripening time…
That bit of info above from the Univ of TN extension office… says that Freedom ripens with Delicious.
And that later chart that I found listing several apple varieties and ripening dates list this…
So… looks like us TN growers of Freedom can expect it to ripen early-mid Sept.
Starkbro said Late Sept, OGW said Late Sept to Oct.
TNHunter
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Good…such research can help everyone of us.
Compare to Delicious.
(Like and old peach chart I remember from long ago…“Elberta” -31 days…
some peach ripens 31 days before the favorite for many decades.
That sort of relationship is more accurate than trying to give 'ripening dates").
I agree with the posts above regarding rot. It is real bad on Apple’s in my central AL yard. Just like @haldog, I’ll lose almost every gold rush to rot unless I enclose them in a Ziploc bag, and even then I still lose around 10%. Hooples seems worse and rots even with the bag. Grimes is a little better. Fuji about the same. I’ve got a real nice crop of Yates in bags coming on for the first time now and have yet to see any rot on those but it’s still early. Another thing hard to avoid for me is fireblight. None of the disease resistant apples I’ve grown can hold up against the FB pressure here. I’ve lost liberty, ark blk, Priscilla, will pride to FB. I spray strep now but I know y’all would rather not spray and I don’t blame you.
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I lose Granny Smith to rots…(the years it actually sets fruit that is)…have for over 25 years. Planning to remove the tree after it’s replacement gets a good start.
Concerning Fuji…my 30 year old tree has a fair crop this year. I never spray it. It has had a little fireblight a time or three, but overall still a healthy tree.
I don’t suscribe to it’s “S” or “VS” rating in the above chart by TNHunter…it’s been among my healthier trees. Really, my ‘not macintosh’ tree is about the only one that looks better over the years.
Odysso red fleshed apple has not displayed any disease of any type.
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There is an early Macintosh that is quite common in old orchards around here. Probably more than one but Jersey Mac may be one of if not THE early Mac variety I see. The key difference is that it’s a bit softer, but that could be the result of ripening under a stronger sun. There are several sports of Macintosh whose apples look less like the original than J. Mac does. Always the quest for a redder apple.
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I have never experienced this “rot” thing you all are talking about… This “Early Mc” apple that I have has been my only Apple tree to survive (long term so far) and produce fruit… and well it is very early.
June 10 - July 22 — it ripens fruit slowly a little at a time over a extended period (which I really like).
If you pick them when they first turn reddish, with perhaps a little green still showing they still taste very good, extra tart, very crisp, but some sweet too… I really like them when they are about as ripe as the one in the pic above, mostly red… still very crisp, but wow a explosion of flavor and some sweetness… If you let them sit on the counter a few days that red… will slowly turn to a deep reddish purple color and the flavor is still quite intense, but the flesh will soften up, to that very near something like a red delicious.
So my Early Mc has never experienced any of this Rot stuff… but that is because it ripens so early.
Do you think that I would have this rot problem on trees like NovaMac or Freedom which are reported to ripen early-mid September ?
Pretty sure I am going to have to replace my Gold Rush with something else… may just graft more Early Mc on it, perhaps some Freedom, Liberty, Enterprise ?
Replace the really late maturing apples with earlier maturing (disease resistant) varieties ?
Is that the best way to deal with this Rot issue ? avoid it by going with earlier apples ?
Thanks
TNHunter
Here is one more Pic of my Early McIntosh apples from this spring…
They are very pretty apples, and have had no spray ever, and still produce nice clean apples as you can see.
TNHunter
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You may suffer from a lot more late, stone fruit destroying frost, but if you can grow apples like that without spray, you don’t have nearly the pest pressure we have in the northeast. Relatively soft apples like Macintosh get hammered by plum curc. and it is is exceptionally susceptible to apple scab. Most years, sooty blotch and flyspeck would make the apples here look much less appealing than yours.
Commercial growers here pretty much drive the sprayers through at least every two weeks to get apples pristine. They keep active fungicide on the fruit constantly right up to harvest.
For most home growers, two sprays in total produce sound fruit excepting the brown rot issue with stone fruit, which can be controlled at sites I manage with a single spray 2-4 weeks before ripening if you can get hold of some Indar.
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@alan… spraying fungicides or pesticides is just not a option for me. It will not be done.
If that is the only way I can get nice clean late season apples… I will just grow something else instead (I have Jujube in place now, no fruit set this year yr 2, hopefully next year). Have my eye on planting persimmon too, for hopefully pest free fall crop.
Let me ask you all about this too… Crab Apples…
If all of these later season regular apples are going to require fungicides, pesticides, and still likely ROT on the tree… what about Crab Apples ?
Per Lucky_P… his Centennial Crabs are good eating, and finished ripening first week in August… and his Kerr Crab apples are starting to ripen now…
Would that be my best bet for (no spray) apples ?
Early Mc June 10 - July 22
Centennial - would probably ripen about the same time the Early Mc playout…
Kerr - starts up a little after Centennial finish.
Do you have the same pest and disease pressure with these Crabs, as you might a later season full size apple ?
Thanks
TNHunter
I’m not telling you what you need to grow apples. You just showed me some that you didn’t spray, and that wouldn’t happen here, not that pristine. Yellow Delicious of the old strain seems like one that often bears useable fruit here without spray- but then, so does Goldrush and Fuji- even Red Delicious. It is just that some chemical intervention enhances the overall reward in terms of sound fruit and I consider it safe to use such things appropriately. Of course, further south and even inland from me, folks often can’t accomplish what we can here with 2 sprays.
Do you think insecticides are dangerous to your health? Check the graft on the lower right hand corner to compare the health of frequent pesticide sprayers compared to that of the average person in their states.
I started by planting 20 apple varieties in 1990 - 1993.
Red delicious, Liberty, Arkansas Black, Fuji, and a standard tree I ordered to be “MacIntosh” but it isn’t…those most disease resistant. (Never got to sample Blue Pearmain as burning too close killed it second leaf.)
Having grafted a bunch of apples in past 5 years, I knoW some of them
I can grow without spray.
How about Liberty or Enterprise or Triumph? King David?
Maybe “white winter pearmain”…(a paternal grandmother to Mutsu/Crispin)…that can produce from Florida to Michigan…and at one time considered “best apple” in advertisements in the past?
Thick skinned apples that are “waxy” typically are good bets for disease resistance, bug resistance, and keeping qualities. Especially late fall varieties.
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@Alan — I do consider myself lucky to have such a nice apple tree in that Early Mc… I could not ask for anything better to cover that time frame - June 10 - July 22.
I think one reason some of the pest leave it alone is right near by I have peaches and blackberries that start ripening mid June… and I think the pest simply like them more.
But what ever the reason, I do get some very nice apples off that tree and it has never been sprayed with anything… I thinned the fruit more this year than I ever have and it made some nice sized apples too.
Now when it comes to spraying pesticides or fungicides on my food… I have simply made the choice, that is not happening. And Yes it is because I have no doubt that is not good for your health. I have had part of my colon removed twice… I do really watch what I eat, clean, whole foods, keto, fasting, etc. with the occasional carb cycle (about every other weekend works good for me). While in a carb cycle I can eat a few things like apples in moderation. I don’t trust our “Gov” at all to tell me what is safe or not… way too much corruption involved there… sorry that is just my opinion… and I am sticking to it. I do appreciate your concern though.
I would much rather grow a variety that will give me mostly good fruit, with no spray… than try to force good results, with spray, with some specific variety. It may be a little more trouble to find the right match, but it can be done, some sacrifice may have to be made ( perhaps smaller fruit , like crab apples)… but I will gladly put up with that to get the results I want.
And my goal is to simply have a few more apples, for a longer time frame.
I have June 10, July 22 covered nicely with my Early Mc.
I love the Early Mc flavor… so the NovaMac has my interest for sure and it scores VR on Scab, FB, CAR, Powdery Mildew. I may have to give that one a try…
But after talking with a few others here about Crab apples… I am also considering Centennial, Kerr, Chestnut crabs…
I do have hope to find other apples, even if crabs (nice sized good eating crabs) that will give me mostly good fruit, with absolutely no spray.
TNHunter
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I get the impression that you think those of us that spray are not concerned about the health hazards and an environmental issues of spraying fungicides and insecticides. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. I follow the labels, research the best methods to limit exposure to people, animals and non-targeted insects, and am very conservative when it comes to pre-harvest intervals and in the use of PPE. As are many on the forum. I also bag fruit to reduce the amount of spraying I have to do.
I also try to compare the risk of spraying to other every day risks and hazards that ordinary people are exposed to. Which isn’t easy to do in many cases.
For example have you tested your water at the tap to see if the water has hazardous chemicals in it? Have you checked the fish you caught and cleaned for hazardous chemicals? Now some people probably think I am being silly when I mention these things. I mean why check if your water is radioactive or has arsenic in it or if you watch the news-check if it has lead in it. These are ordinary things that everyone knows that are low risk right? Well, for time I was drinking radioactive water from a municipal water supply. Fortunately, it was within safe limits, they checked for it and reported in an annual water quality report. I had a well that I got drinking water from for years and I decided to have it tested and guess what it had arsenic in it. And the amount was above safe levels so I switched to another water source.
I used to fish a lot. When I got the annual license they give you a booklet with the regulations that also has fishing tips and other useful information. The booklet explains what fish are not safe to eat because of chemical contamination that are of a certain size in particular bodies of water and how to cook fish to reduce your risk. They checked for chlorodane, PCBs and atrazine to name a few. Have you checked your water or your fish for any of this stuff?
The point I trying to make is there are probably many risks that you take for granted that are low risk and they may not be low risk. You want to try to figure out what the risks are and then take steps to minimize the risk or eliminate it.
For most people the best thing they could do to reduce the risk of health problems is stop eating processed foods in large quantities, figure out how many calories you actually consume daily (it’s higher than you think), switch to healthy diet and finally exercise regularly. But it’s hard to do this when the culture around you insists you should eat large portions of processed foods and that medication is the best way to improve your health before diet and exercise.
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@mroot … sorry about that impression. Not my intentions at all.
The OP here did mention concerns … or goals of not spraying.
I would hope to be able to help someone like that without offending others who do choose to spray.
TNHunter
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Monark does well in Dallas
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@Bhawkins Yes, Monark also does well here in tidewater MD but I can’t figure out when to pick it! Seems either unripe or over-ripe. I only hit the sweet spot of just right picking time by accident. If I wait until it comes off the tree easily, many times that’s too late and it’s getting soft already.
What do you look for when picking?
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