Southern apple growers - Outside of Liberty and William's Pride, what apples/crabapples do you recommend?

General Fruit Growing
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@haldog… my Goldrush looks stunted compared to my other 2 apple trees (all 2 year olds).

It’s leaves are serious plagued by CAR, looking sad… and your mention of Fireblight being a serious issue for GR… is making me think it is doomed for sure. I have had multiple pear and apple trees here die of FB. Sounds like my Gold Rush try was mostly a waste of time.

So it has serious issues with FB, and CAR… but it still made the Disease Resistant list for OGW catalog.

Your mention of other leaf diseases… I think I am seeing that too… I have never seen CAR cause such ugliness. It definately has CAR but I am thinking + other leaf issues too.

TNHunter

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43

ogw’s climate primarily has apple scab challenges and 2nd place powdery mildew, fire blight and cedar apple rust are usually rare. plus their catalog is basically unserious. for someone near OGW they’re pretty much going to look for “R” or “VR” in the scab column in the purdue pdf and call it a day

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I think you’re right … some nurseries are not ‘fruit farmers’ but are ‘marketers’ of the latest hot item.

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45

Black Limbertwig should be disease resistant enough…and the 4th harvest period…or about same as winesap. wine crisp is even later…and disease resistant.

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46

I read this entire post and checked out all the linked documents and collected some information…
Summarizing up what I found below…

First that document with details on disease resistance… I looked thru it and included some of the varieties that have been mentioned in this post as being disease resistant and also included a few that were in the list, but perhaps not mentioned here.

I excluded most varieties in the list that were VS or S to the 4 main problems Scab, FB, CSR, Powdery Mildew.

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They did rate some “edible crabs”.

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Now here are a couple of varieties that have been mentioned in this post, and at least one that was thought of as being disease resistant (per OGW catalog)… only to find VS or S to a couple of these 4 main issues.

Note some of the apples suggested for southern growers here in this post, simply were not in that article that gave those details on disease resistance.

One that stands out to me in the list… that I have not heard of, and don’t think anyone mentioned here… is

Novamac… which scores VR in all 4.

Also even thouth Williams Pride (one mentioned in the post title) was not listed in that Disease Resistant apple variety list… I did find this detailed description of it… and it mentions all 4 disease issues and the resistance level.

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Immune to scab, and CAR, and highly resistant to FB, and moderately resistant to powdery mildew.

I am going to look around and see what I can find on Novamac…

TNHunter

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47

I go the extra mile growing Goldrush because I really like its taste. I also get a few hits from FB and I break them out as I see them. CAR was bad at my other location but seems to be okay at my new orchard. If you’re willing to spray, one application of immunox gave me almost total leaf control for the year.

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48

Thanks for the details Auburn…but I will not spray fungicides… I will give up Gold Rush first and replace it with somethig that will simply not be as badly affected by the CAR.

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This Redfree is sure a pretty apple, R on Scab, MR on FB, VR on CAR, MR Powery Mildew.

My Early Mc apple is listed above as being S on Scab… but it has never had Scab… the apples are always nice and clean. It shows R on FB… and it lived and thrived and produced nice clean apples, while … I think a total of 6 pear trees and 3 apple trees (within 40 ft of it) died of FB. It shows R on CAR, and it does get a few red spots in very wet springs (like this one), but it does not really bother the tree and does not affect the fruit at all.

That Redfree apple sounds like a good choice for me… but I think I really need one that is VR to FB, with my history of FB completely wiping out pear and apple trees here…

So I will keep searching…

In the list above Freedom and Novamac are listed as VR to FB… going to check those out.

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49

Check out this list:
https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/pri/

And this one check also its PDF refrences at the bottom that have great lists from several sources:
https://blogs.cornell.edu/khanlab/extension/fire-blight-susceptibility-of-common-apple-cultivars/

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Here are some details I found online on NovaMac - the Purdue rating is listed above… VR on all.

…
A modern Mac-style apple, developed at the Canadian Agriculture and Agri-Food research station in Kentville, Nova Scotia. Like several other apples developed here, it has the word “Nova” in its name.
Novamac ripens a bit ahead of its parent, McIntosh, but inherits the classic Mac sweet wine-like flavor.

A grower review…
20 Oct 2011 Bob Osborne, NEW BRUNSWICK, Canada
We have been working with this variety for nearly 30 years. It has not gotten the attention it deserves. It can be picked over a long period an even when unripe is flavorful and crisp. At peak it rivals its parent ‘McIntosh’ for flavor, being somewhat more vinous. It bears well every year and has an easy form form pruning. If we had to choose one apple to grow from all we grow (nearly 90 varieties) it would be ‘Novamac’.

Some more details…

Origins

  • Species: Malus domestica
  • Parentage: McIntosh x scab-resistant seedling
  • Originates from: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada
  • Introduced: 1970s
  • Developed by: Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada
  • Orange Pippin Cultivar ID: 1815
  • UK National Fruit Collection accession: 2003-026
  • Uses: Eat fresh
  • Harvest period: Mid season
  • Use / keeping: 2-3 weeks
  • Flowering period: Mid-Late season
  • Flowering group: 4
  • Ploidy: Diploid
  • Vigour: Average growth
  • Bearing regularity: Regular
  • Gardening skill: Very easy
  • Precocity: Precocious
  • Fruit bearing: Spur-bearer
  • General disease resistance: Good
  • Period of origin: 1950 - 1999

A photo below (most of those details above came from www.orange pippin.com site) as did the photo below.
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Note… this looks very similar to my Early Mc apple… But this cross NovaMac added Scab resistance.

Silver Creek Nursery said this about NovaMac…
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Ripens early September…

My Early McIntosh apple looks pretty much just like those above…
I think mine is the much older cross mentioned here… Early McIntosh has a first-rate pedigree, with McIntosh himself providing the parenting pollen and Yellow Transparent the seed.

Yellow Transparent is a early ripening apple, (season summer) which may explain why my Early Mc ripened here in the South… June 10 - July 22 (this year).

I mostly took a hard look at NovaMac… since it scored on the Perdue chart VR on all 4 disease issues.
And notice in the description above it also says Resistant to canker… another +

TNHunter

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51

Yeah Novamac sounds worth trying for sure, i sure would swap scion and try it… Fireblight mildly hit my orchard but only damaged some standard trees like all 3 of my Red Delicious, but no damage at all on Freedom, Enterprise, Liberty, Black Limbertwig or most of my other disease resistant trees, and even Granny Smith and Yellow Delicious right next to RD didnt get any.

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Next I am going to collect some details on Freedom… I think FB is may main concern (so many have died here from that)… and Freedom is the only other one in the Perdue list that scored VR on FB and scored well on the other 4 common problems…

Below is what Univ of TN Extension said about Freedom…
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I found a couple of nursery’s that carry Freedom…

Below is from Starkbro…
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Below are the first two customer reviews on Freedom
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Below is from OGW site…

Freedom Apple Tree

Freedom Apple Tree is a later-fruiting cultivar that produces a bright-red fruit with almost invisible yellow background and some patches of nettled russeting. With its subacidic, spright flavor, it is an excellent apple for fresh eating, cider or cooking.

Latin Name: Malus pumila
Site and Soil: Apples like 1/2 day to full sun and well-drained soil.
Rootstock Description:
M-7 is considered a semi-dwarf rootstock growing 12-16 ft. in height. M-7 is very hardy and adapted to most soils. Vigorous, drought tolerant, and well anchored, trees on M-7 should not require staking.
M-26 is considered a dwarf rootstock, growing 8-12 ft. in height. M-26 induces early bearing, usually in 2-3 years after planting, and grows well in most soils, except very wet and poorly drained ones. On windy sites, trees grafted on M-26 may need staking.
Pollination Requirements: Apples need another variety nearby for pollination. Neighboring trees often offer sufficient pollen for good fruit set. Liberty is a sister tree to Freedom and is a particularly good pollinizer. Consider Mason Bees to help pollinate and increase fruit production.
Hardiness: Hardy to minus 30° F or below.
Bearing Age: 2-3 years after planting.
Size at Maturity: Dwarf 8-12ft. / Semi-dwarf 12-16 ft.
Taste: Subacidic, spright flavor
Fruit Skin: Bright red, yellow
Fruit Flesh: White
Bloom Time: April
Ripening Time: Late September to October
Yield: 30-50 lbs.
Pests & Diseases: Freedom is resistant to apple scab, fire blight and mildew.
USDA Zone: 4-8

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53

You can probably grow Redfree but it’s not a very tasty apple in my central NC 7B climate. It’s pretty disease resistant and ripens early which is good but did not have much much flavor for me and got soft quickly. We removed ours after 4 or 5 years.

We also removed 25 William’s Pride trees after 4 or 5 years because of severe water core problems.

Never had problems with CAR until this year on Old Fashion Winesap. They looked good enough to sell last year with no spray and I thought they may be the perfect apple for my location. I grafted 100 to plant this fall but they all have a bad case of CAR this year.

Our goal was to grow and sell apples using a moderate spray program but we lost most of the apples two years in a row due to summer rots. If your goal is zero spray you can avoid a lot of the rot with apples that ripen early

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54

@blueberrythrill - the CAR has been worse here this year than I have ever seen. We have had a very rainy year, spring summer and still going…

Our wild black cherry trees and some other wild trees got affected by CAR worse than I have ever seen this year. My Gold Rush apple, looks pitiful…

My Hudson Golden Gem, Akane and Early Mcintosh, have mild cases of CAR… not really affecting them at all. I think I could get by with trees that were Moderately Resistant to CAR… but one that is Very Susceptible - it going to suffer badly here (at least in very wet years).

TNHunter

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Thanks for this great summary information.

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@blueberry and others… a few years after my experience with loosing so many pear and apple tree starts to Fire Blight… I did some research online and found information indicating that Bradford Pear trees carry FB and will pass it on to your Pear and Apple trees…

When we first built our home in 2002 one of the first trees we planted was a Bradford Pear… We have a Picture of Me… and my 4 year old daughter, planting it (she was helping of course). It has been a beautiful tree for many years… but last year a nasty straight line thunderstorm rolled thru and caused it to split, about half of the tree off. I am removing it completely this fall (once it cools off a little)…

This bradford pear was thriving and blooming… thru all those years that my pear and apple tree starts died of FB… and it is just about 50 yards (normally just up wind) of my orchard, where my apple and pear trees were located. With normal prevailing wind… it was blowing directly from the bradford pear to my pears and apples.

Once I get rid of this tree… it could be that my FB issues will not be nearly as Sevier. I hope so anyway.

TNHunter

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57

Looks like both Novamac and Freedom are in the Mid-Late Blooming group (which I hope helps with my type of late frosts)… and if you had both of those… You would have Sept/October covered pretty well with ripe apples.

My Early Mc would pollinate with them some anyway…(it is more Mid bloomer). but it blooms long, and would still be blooming when these start blooming, Probably about a week of overlap there…
The Early Mc gives me rip apples June 10 - July 22 (this year).

If my Akane tree works out… it ripens in August.

When I do start over at my new location… at least I have some new ideas here on what to try.

Thanks all.

TNHunter

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After I cut down three old Bradford Pears I inherited, all of a sudden my fireblight problems essentially disappeared, although I think we’re overdue for a perfect storm blight year. No FB problems here on Goldrush for last five years.

I use an “audition tree” where I graft a branch or twig of a variety I want to test before going whole hog. Belle de Boskoop hit a home run in audition, so got promoted to a whole tree.

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@hambone… I sure hope getting rid of my Bradford pear… helps with my FB issues.

My nearest neighbor, about 1/2 mile away, has his driveway lined with Douglas Pear trees, similar to bradford, but not as prone to split. I hope that is far enough away, that it will not bother any pear or apple starts I try next.

that Belle de Boskoop sure sounds interesting… but that “Tripiloid” stuff scares me…

I have a pink flowering crab apple in my back yard…

And since for near 20 years, every apple that I planted to try and establish a pollinator for my Early Mc apple (well they all died of FB)… … and the only pollinator my Early Mc has had for most of that 20 years was a pink flowering crab…

IT worked… I got Early Mc apples thru all of that.

For someone that really only wants 2-3 apple trees at most… having a triploid in the mix, seems a bit risky. I guess if you intended to have 4-5 or more anyway, a triploid in the mix would work fine.

By the way on the mention of Crab Apple… my pink flowering crab saved the day for my Early Mc producing apples… for many years. I do like having a Crab around… the spring blooms are awesome… a sight to behold each year for sure.

But my current crab (pink flowering, came from Starks, not sure of the variety)… but the apples are tiny… small grape sized. Not worth harvesting at all.

Is there good Southern heat/humidity Crab Apple, that would pollinate Mid-Late blooming apples… that bears decent sized crab apples (1-2"), that have a least some sweet, with the tart ? Would love to have one I could actually pick and eat fresh and like. I can take the tartness, if there is a little sweet in there too.

TNHunter

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60

That defeats the purpose of having apples that ripen late and keep all winter if they ripen early and don’t keep much.

But I observe no disease issues on “May Queen” so try that one for an early crop. Mollies Delicious ripe in August and doesn’t keep much but no disease issues.

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61

I believe I’d put more ‘stock’ in ripening dates from NCSU or UT or UK or even Penn State…especially living in Tennessee. Perhaps Arkansas.