In my seldom sprayed nursery, Arkansas Black is my most reliable tart apple. Doesn’t requira a lot of pruning in its spur form. ACN still carries it. I like if off the tree but its rep is that it isn’t edible until it’s been stored for a couple months- I don’t buy that, It is awfully hard off the tree though. Densest apple I grow which helps protect it against insects, particularly PC. The newer DR apples are more susceptible to insect damage and Goldrush easily defoliates from Marsoninna and other leaf issues, even if it doesn’t get scab. Scab is not such a big deal in my site, even though it is a crazy humid hollow with little air flow. You have to be right on the ocean to be wetter, even the sites I manage on the edge of the Hudson river are not so moist. Shelter from wind is not all good for fruit growers.
My Ark Black is nowhere near tart. It has a slight wine flavor, but only slight.
The Black Twig I’m growing is tart/sprightly. This is NOT the same as David Vernon’s.
The Stayman I grow is a unique sport mutation. It’s balanced and sprightly. The tree from which it came from was a banger and not like the Staymans grown at the local market.
@Hambone, whatever happened to your Swiss Limbertwig?
Limbertwigs rarely or never tasted like much as grown in my soil/climate. Black LT good one year out of many; Swiss maybe never. Just local conditions and/or a variety’s built in inconsistent taste from one year to the next. One year Myers Royal LT was a Mt Rushmore complex taste but only that one year. I’m in a marginal (at best) spot for apples so the stars have to align for heirlooms to taste good.
@KPS Do your Staymans split near ripe like mine did long ago before blight took it? How is your strain of Black Twig on blight/rust?
Lobo is tart when picked, but will sweeten in storage. It has large fruit for me and caught me off guard with flavor, I really like it. Tart pie apples would include Rhode Island Greening (I’m not sure I could ripen it in my climate) and Northwest Greening (new for me on G.214). Yellow Bellflower may have potential for you, from Pomiferous: The flesh is yellowish, fine-grained and firm. Juicy and aromatic. Sweet-sharp. Acidity is considered sprightly in a ripe apple but distinctly tart if not fully ripe. Thin skin. Mine has been disease free, but I can’t say how it would fare in your climate.
There seems to be a relationship between excessive cropping and weak flavor.
The other issue in the south is premature fruit drop. Many varieties would benefit from stop drop spray on the humid SE.
Oh man do I have fruit drop here. Sweet 16 and Sundance drop 80 to 90% of crop, after aggressive crop thinning by hand.
I thin heavily so over-cropping not causing meh taste here.
Crimson Topaz gets overlooked a lot but it’s genuinely good. The tropical notes when it mellows in storage are real, not just tasting notes marketing. Disease package is solid too, minimal spray in my setup.
I am going to try it’s cousin Freiherr von Hallberg. Which is breed from it’s original Topaz and Pinova.
I grafted a scion from a tree in a parking lot at a business last year. I asked the office manager what variety it was and who took care of it. He said that it was never taken care of and he said it just came up un the parking lot about 10 years ago and always got a few apples on it after about 5 years. The power company trimmed the top out of it last year and this year it was loaded with apples which is very unusual because we had a late freeze that eliminated all our stone fruit and the majority of the apples in our area. This apple is very tart with just a little sweetness and really crisp and juicy. It has no sign of scab on the tree or apples, no Car on the tree, blight I can’t say how it would be because it isn’t prevalent in my area. The biggest problem It seems to ripen around the first week of September and is getting soft by the end of September and is getting sweet. The insect problem was light with a little codling moth. I tried to send a picture of the apples but couldn’t get them to download. Since it did so well with the 19 degrees we had in April, I am going to graft another limb next year, before the power company decides to cut it down completely.
I am always surprised when someone says Liberty is a bug magnet. It is the one tree in my lower orchard that has very little coddling moth. It is surrounded by russets and a Glockenapfel and a few Etter trees that are badly attacked by CM.
I planted it in the upper orchard, too, but there it doesn’t have many neighboring trees fruiting (most of the trees are less than 5 years old). Up there Hudson and Thompkins King get most of the CM.
I think maybe the lower orchard fruit SMELL sweet early on. I have certainly noticed that with Hudson and Muscat de Venus. So maybe that’s why they get buggy so fast.
The flavor lacking issues you’re having may have to do more with premature fruit drop and fruit not ripening properly more than the apple cultivar lacking flavor.
Some apples taste better than others if they’re not ripe. The Ginger Gold, Golden D, Summer Banana all are very palatable when not quite ripe. The Ark Black, Williams Pride are terrible when not ripe. My Ark Black’s apple flavor has changed dramatically for the better in the last 7 days.
Being you live in a very humid climate, I’d try earlier apples like the Hunge, Horse, and very late apples like the Terry Winter and Cripps Pink. I’m thinking about trying the Mountain Beauty which doesn’t ripen until Nov-Dec in NC. I believe all of these will see CAR. Immunox works if the directions are followed. After the bloom, I still spray Mancozeb with Surround until June.
The Rankin Toole Black Twig is a tart apple you should look into. I also have a strain of Stayman I believe you would like. These see a fair amount of Bitter Rot and some fire blight, but if you prune it out, you’ll be fine. The Stayman I have is a sport mutation that has fine flesh, sprightly tart with some effervescence, and some sweetness as well. It’s much more refined than some other Staymans including its parent tree.
Buford Redflesh is reportedly tart, crisp, and generally disease resistant, including resistance to rust and blight. Possibly too tart for fresh eating, but useful for desserts and cider.
In our ‘ no spray block ‘ the Bramley stands out as the tartest. Naturally scab imune but as we dont get FB here i cant speak to that.
I will second Liberty being a bug magnet. When I heard disease resistant and tart, Enterprise immediately came to mind. Also decently crisp. Some people are put off by the thick skin, but I think its worth it. We are picking Enterprise right now and every year I think, boy wish we would have planted more. I love Arkansas Black, but they are pretty scabby most years. Crimson Crisp seems to be a fireblight magnet here.
Lost my CC here to what i think was blight. Its a i enjoy them when i can get them though.
Have you tried to grow the Kinnairds Choice?
David Vernon says it’s exceptionally disease resistant.
The one I tried was somewhat similar to the KD. Somewhat tart.
They are great for eating out of hand. The texture is good, but on the softer side.
Dolgo Crabapple is fairly tart, crisp and disease resistant.
Bonkers (also known as NY35) is reported to be relatively tart, crispy, and exceptionally disease resistant, including good resistance to blight and rust.
The ripeness point is real. Had a Williams Pride once that tasted like nothing and couldn’t work out why everyone rated it so highly. Turned out I’d been picking too early, left them another two weeks the following year and it was a completely different apple.
If you don’t have plum curculio it probably isn’t, and in Western Oregon, it is one of many pests you don’t have to contend with that those in the humid region face. Coddling moth is a lesser pest in the orchards I manage in S. NY and CT. PC is enemy number one to apples and plums in my region in the mid to southern northeast.
PC just loves Liberty. Around here, most people don’t. It’s a pretty ordinary apple and ugly tree to boot. In drier climates, I get a different message and dry seasons make it better here… if you control PC.