It’s good to have you here @RNeal. I live about 10 minutes away from where you tasted your first Paw Paw. At least that’s what I’ve read. The last few years the University has had a Paw Paw party each fall when the fruit comes into season. People interested can stop by and sample the fruit and also get info on how to propagate the seeds. It was the first place I tasted the fruit. Hopefully you choose the stick around and share some of your wisdom with us all.
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Scott, it’s time for us to communicate on FB messenger. Are we friends there? Send me an FB friend request and we’ll go from there. Then it will be easier to talk about everything.
Neal
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Hey Neal, my apologies for causing you this grief. I should have worded the post better. I would agree your tremors are not related to Parkinson’s. Those tremors are easy to tell. Your tremors do look drug induced. Sorry to hear you have to endure these side effects. Having known people with Parkinson’s disease I still cannot get myself to eat pawpaws.
I was very interested in them, until I found out about the toxin. Well that is not totally true. Not until I looked at what the toxin does, did I decide this fruit is not for me. I over reacted mostly due to my own personal experience with people I know passing from this terrible disease. Thanks for posting to clear things up. But this is far from the only site, as many have noticed and commented on your video.
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@RNeal I also wondered about a pawpaw/tremor connection in an earlier post here without using names or video. My apologies to you Neal and can’t fathom what it’s like to endure those headaches. I hope there’s a cure out there somewhere. I imagine you’ve explored meditation, possible stress causes. I have endured much pain in my life from stress induced pain syndromes.
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Cluster headaches have no cure. I think medicine would not hide this information if they knew it.
The disease is complex and purely understood. The symptoms are well known: typically the headache strikes in the middle of sleep, at the onset of REM. It is always one-side of the head, centered on the eyeball from which the pain radiates to the entire half of the head, the teeth, the neck, copious tears, nasal discharge, red skin flushing. The pain is excruciating and lasts on average an hour. Some men have committed suicide rather than go on.
Most sufferers are men; the headaches occur EVERY night for a month or more, then cease and return 12 months later. For some people, such as myself, it is chronic daily, not seasonal. Scientists understand that the malady arises from a malfunction of the hypothalmus, and that the pain is mediated through the trigeminal nerve.
There are approaches to aborting the headache in the first 5 minutes of onset. There are about 6 drugs that can be effective as prophylactics (discovered by trial and error for each person). No cure exists, although LSD shows promise. But LSD is illegal, even for scientists to test.
Per your questions: I meditate, have for decades, but it has no effect for my headaches. The only known trigger is alcohol, which I avoid. We hear that for certain painful conditions, marijuana is a solution. I seldom partake but knew there would be no harm in smoking. So one morning upon waking the headache was there; I went to a friend’s house and we smoked. Ha ha! Now I had a major headache and was high at the same time. I don’t recommend it.
Neal
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I am suspecting that there may be other compounds in the Annonaceae fruits that can counteract the effects of annonacin. Many fruits often come with various nutraceuticals that when purified for one substance can be extremely toxic or highly medicinal, but when taken together they are in harmony that prevents the toxicity of one type to be fully expressed. Leaves of A. muricata or graviola or soursop have been used to treat cancer even though it has annonacin.
The annonacin content of various Annonaceae fruits have kept me from making wines out of them.
The FDA has published the annonacin content of various Annonaceae fruits, and Cherimoya seemed to have the lowest content so I may make wine out of them one of these days.
Nonetheless, since the cat is out of the bag, efforts should be made to consider the annonacin content of pawpaws as one of the selection criteria when developing new cultivars.
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I have a brother in law who had a variety of health complaints clear up after having a chiropractor work on his cranials (Skull bones). You might look into that, as it was a night and day difference for him, and impacted more of his health then they realized. I hope you can get some relief.
I’m not growing pawpaws, but plan to. My dad has Parkinson’s, but we are sure his was contributed to by his long term use of cholesterol lowering drugs. He’s never had a pawpaw in his life.
“Moderation in all things” is a good idea, that most disregard if it is another prescription. The idea that Dr’s know best would be nice if it was always true, but the number of deaths from preventable medical error makes educating self a good idea.
I appreciate the info shared here because not every body is the same. If anyone in my family experiences any issues with eating pawpaw fruits, someday (when and if I actually grow some) then I will have more knowledge to weigh into our experience.
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I agree that this would be very desirable. Unfortunately the cost of testing may be prohibitive for anyone on a small budget especially considering that there is no major financial incentive based on the current market share of this fruit. I think that this type of project would probably have to be undertaken by a university research department.
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KSU is doing testing for annonacin:
"We are screening current pawpaw cultivars for
acetogenin activity:
High: NC-1, Overleese, Mitchell, Middletown, Susquehanna,…
Low: Sunflower, Wabash, Potomac, Zimmerman, Wells,…"
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Great thread…Thankyou.Neal.and ALL that contributed…being a biologist and now a student of permaculture…I can say that yes lab test will extract and concentrate a substance as to isolate it, knowing then that the results are caused by this one variable…of course in nature things don’t work this way…too much of a substance can be poison, but just a bit less can be medicine…any way please use your own mind and discretion to decide
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http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/PDF/PDF's%20of%20Powerpoints/AcetoUpdate%202016.pdf
If you can read the 2016 research papers shown here, and follow along - you’ll see that it has been convincingly shown that there is no compelling reason to worry a bout pawpaw’s neurotoxicity.
The idea of growing pawpaws for years, and not eating them because you’re not privy to the research makes me sad! Almost everything is toxic - including the male hormone testosterone, and i’m sure most of us want to have lots of that.
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Yep…and the state of California knows everything causes cancer.
Probably even pawpaws.
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Yes, my friend also had some nerve pain issues, and finally went to a chiropractor at my suggestion. She was also suffering from migraines (but not cluster?) weekly or increasingly more at the time…but wasn’t seeking treatment from the chiropractor for that.
Well after her first visit or few…her migraines surprisingly stopped (as well as a lot of her nerve pain, too)!
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When I had cluster headaches many years ago I saw one of the best headache doctors in the US and he suggested using supplemental oxygen to terminate an attack. It worked for me.
There are quite a few studies that show magnesium can treat cluster headaches and a great deal of anecdotal evidence from sufferers who say that it works. Here’s a study - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8550360
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I wonder if nature is trying to tell us something. I have had soursop a few times, usually as juice, it is delicious, but it never fails to give an almost immediate and mild nausea after drinking it, which passes after a minute or two. My wife experiences the same.
Paw Paws are as safe as any other plants. They reproduce whats in your soil. Just as tobacco farmers in KY discovered using contaminated topsoil from NJ. Plants extract, then concentrate toxins from soil. As far as headaches I have a few friends that suffer from Migraines. Both have mentioned ingredients in Cheese & nuts, is that also in Paw Paws?. Being seperated from my fiancee I’ve sustained myself on Chimichangas & microwave meals living at my office. I cant imagine eating fresh fruits could possibly be worse unless they were grown in a toxic dump lol… Either way I wish each of you good health. Thankfully I havent had a bad headache in a good long while( years). Stopping Tobacco permanently & Reducing caffine substantially might have helped. But ive only been tobacco free for about 2 years. ( My sons whom are 11 & 12 requested I stop. I chewed Redman from age 15 to 40.) I will say it cured my heartburn within days.
Anyways, Everyones body is different & reacts in many unique ways. Somedays just listening to music & watching my trees seems almost theraputic. Other days Rebuilding something mechanical or changing fixing parts on my bikes etc…I have many hobbies because I’m very ecclectic but each brings Relaxation & like my Trees & garden useful products others can enjoy…Trust what works for you. Again Wish you all good health… And Happy Days.
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Thanks for your comments here and elsewhere in this thread, along with Olpea’s. My grandfather died of Parkinson’s and my uncle currently has Parkinson’s. I doubt either ever ate a pawpaw, but this conversation makes me cringe in so, so many ways. Bringing up a research study is fine for general discussion, but even if Neal Peterson did have Parkinsons it’s not OK to use that to discredit his work or attribute that to eating pawpaw. Asking a question can be good grounds for designing a broad research project, studying a large nameless population, however. I was glad to see that Neal chimed in later on, but imagine it didn’t help him feel more comfortable with the tremors he has to struggle with on a regular basis.
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No, pawpaws are not as safe as other plants. Pawpaws use toxic substances to defend against insect and animal predation. Some people have mild reactions to these substances, some people have serious reactions to these substances, and some have no apparent reaction, but pawpaws are absolutely not as safe as most other plants with edible fruits.
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Well as a child I swelled up like a baloon fish from Dried Apricots & Pears made me Ill instantly. Reactions to Fruits for some especially at first in big quantities or switching regions etc. Can be severe but these people are talking about Neuro receptor & plaugue etc build ups none actually related to food intake. Dementia runs in my family( but so does living to close to 100 or more so… its hard to say but Ive put some serious study into neurological stuff at times. I will say if your prone to diarrhea Paw Paws, Rhubarb & some pear varieties in big servings are not for you…lol
The same can be said for a lot of food we eat:
Cucubrits that have gone bitter are toxic, the sprouts on potatoes are toxic, apricot pits can be toxic, fig sap is caustic, raw cashews are extremely caustic. Some mushrooms can be extremely deadly, others can be perfectly fine.
I’m more of the of the option that nothing is “safe”, some things just kill you less than others.
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