yes i know this tree , i have seen a video of man eating one of is fruit, where it grow is like a microclimate in a microclimate, i want trees with good growth and yield in a open field, but i think it’s a good thing you can eat a good avocado with the london climate(lot of rain and less sunshine). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRHB3jxHzS8&ab_channel=Joe%27sTropicals
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I went around this morning and looked at the outdoor trees. Low this morning was 28.5°F, so that was two nights in a row around that level. They are showing slightly more leaf damage than they were after 30°F before, but still no major injury to any of the trees I’m expecting to be hardy (I have a few Reed seedlings as a control, and those are looking pretty crispy).
First up, a couple more photos of #37, which in the light of day shows the faintest hint of cellular damage on a couple of the more tender leaves:
Here’s the hardier of the two Hamada seedlings from @george, which does look like it’ll have some leaf damage from two nights in a row nearly down to 28°F, but nothing severe:
By contrast, here’s the hardiest seedling from last winter, #149 (a Duke seedling), which doesn’t show even a hint of cellular damage on the leaves yet:
The Poncho graft also shows zero damage, though it does have a large bay tree planted to the north of it, which seemed to shield it from any frost forming on the leaves (but it’s also the tree that is closest to my outdoor sensor, so definitely experiences the temperature I measure):
I’ve got to get caught up on work for my “day job,” so that’ll have to suffice as an update for now. I’ll leave as the final photo, the seedlings of Reed that were placed in a sheltered location next to my house (so protected their frost had already melted before the others this morning), but still they look this sad and I suspect they will show additional stem damage soon:
Clearly, hardiness is a real trait that not all avocados possess!
Edit: since I had taken more photos of other trees I didn’t have the time to discuss, here’s an assortment of other hardy trees outside, without captions, just to show the range of damage they have at this point:
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I’m familiar with the tree being in a warm microclimate. I mention it less because of the overall low temps and because London is very gloomy, cold and damp with cold high temps in winter. I’ve heard on this thread that this is also a consideration when zone pushing avocados.
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I remember reading on here recently that the capacity for avocados to endure the gloomy conditions and cold high temps is also worth exploring. That would seem like a good trait for avocados growing in a greenhouse in a place with very low winter light levels like northwest Europe. Or not. They are still a cool novelty when growing in places like London, Switzerland or the Oregon/California border.
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Was the Duke #149 outside all last winter too?
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Yes, if you click on the link to see its profile page, you can scroll down and see what it looked like after last winter (low of 17°F). It had an unheated flower pot over it for the only two nights below 25°F last winter, but no other form of protection. It was not quite 12 months from seed the first time it hit 25°F, and was not protected for that. Here’s where I linked to the profile:
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I was just reading about the climate of Brittany. I was surprised by how mild it is, the southern portion in particular. There are lots of areas with zone 10 along the southern coast. Pornic itself appears to be in zone 10, and even qualifies as a Mediterranean climate, with minimal summer rain and over 2000 annual sunshine hours. That seems quite favorable for avocado planting.
The climate of Brittany reminds me of the southern coast of Humboldt County, California in a town called Shelter Cove. There’s a guy who has a small commercial avocado orchard in Shelter Cove.
As you wrote in an earlier post the low light levels are you biggest obstacle. Do you know of others growing avocados in your region?
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That’s a really great feature. Thanks for pointing that out. Duke shows great promise for sure.
Is this a seed from that tree in Orville? Did you get scions from that Orville tree?
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I got the seeds, and my Duke scions, from Marta, but she said her tree was grafted from that tree, so yes this is essentially a seedling of that tree. My own Duke grafts definitely have the greatest biomass of any variety in the greenhouse, and had the largest number of flowers last year, which also bloomed for the longest time of any variety in there, so I’m hopeful they are also the most likely to set fruit next year for me.
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yeah i think brittany has the potentiel for exotic fruit production, i remenber now i have seen the premise of his orchard in a video of Gary Gragg, thank you for remenbering this video. it’s true the weather are similar too mine, i was searching a equivalente to my climate to mine thanks for the help.
Not in my region just small commercial avocado in the south and corsica island. France heavily focuse on animal production , and one of the only fruit tree we are growing are apple, Brittany is known for its cider. We rely on Spain for the production of exotic fruit, but with the severe drought happening in there the cost of citrus and avocado ( and other sub-tropical fruit) are going up and the quality going down.
I want to grow avocado and citrus for me and my community and it will a be a big challenge.
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I don’t think citrus will be too much of a challenge, particularly in zone 9. Even in zone 8 citrus is fairly easy to cultivate.
You just have to be satisfied with citrus like meyer lemon, sudachi, satsuma, kumquat and calamondin. All those do exceedingly well for me in a zone 9.
In my other location, an 8b, I have to cover the meyer lemon on nights below 28, which is fairly uncommon. The others I don’t bother with covering unless we drop below 20 which some winters doesn’t happen and most winters only a night or two.
Of course, these standards are presupposing that the trees are mature. In the zone 8b location I keep the baby citrus in a greenhouse for the first two winters before planting them outside. And the first winter after planting them outside I cover them and use Christmas lights on the coldest nights. Beginning the 3rd winter they are ready for the standard protocol.
The avocados I am not as practiced on. In the zone 9 it is rather easy and I just let them be after they reach year 3. In zone 8b it’s way more difficult. So far I only grow them in an unheated greenhouse. But I’m planning to plant some outside this coming spring.
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I stopped by Bob Duncan’s place about a month ago. He is in basically the exact same micro climate as myself, being only a short skip across the chanel to Sidney from where I live. His operation is most impressive, growing all manner of subtropical species. I picked up 4 Feijoa, a Loquat, and a Navel Orange from him on my visit. The weather this fall has been so mild I could have easily planted the Feijoa outside, but I decided to keep them all inside in a block of south facing windows in my house that is in the 35 - 50 deg F range all winter. I’m sure they would have done just fine outside, but I want to try and size them up as quickly as I can.
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Out of the ~150 seeds I’m starting this winter, here’s the first one to have true leaves start to emerge… pretty impressive! This is #351, a seedling of the “Daughter” tree (which is itself a seedling of the “Gainesville” cultivar):
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Anything to report about his avocados?
He didn’t really go into it too much other than saying he was trialing some new cold hardy varieties. The weather has been so mild here so far that it’s not like the temps have been stressing the trees at all. We’ve barely hit freezing here so far this fall/winter. I’ve had a couple of nights with light frost but that’s about it, very mild so far. My chest is actually red from working outside without a shirt on all week, awesome weather.
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I am newer to growing tropical fruit but since Seattle is now a zone 9a I figured I would try Mexico la Grande and possibly Zutano. Is this smart or should I choose a different variety?
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Welcome to the forum, @SeattleSatch! Unfortunately, even though we are now zone 9a, it will still be very difficult to successfully grow an avocado tree here.
Zutano especially is not going to work, it’s nowhere near hardy enough and the fruit takes about 12 months to ripen from when it flowers.
Mexicola Grande might work, but none of the mail order nurseries use cold-hardy rootstocks, so I wouldn’t recommend buying one. If you’re interested in joining our project to try to breed cold-hardy avocados for our region, you can sign up here:
Join the drymifolia collective
I’m not sure we’ll have enough trees to ensure that people signing up now will get one in the next distribution, but it’s possible (depending on how many of the existing members opt in when I send the link in a few weeks), and there should certainly be enough for you to get a few trees in spring 2025!
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Thank you for the advice! I am definitely going to try the Mexicola Grande because I have a somewhat protected sunny slope and I could put old christmas lights around it for the winter. I will definitely sign up to possibly get an avocado tree as part of the cold-hardy avocado trial!
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@swincher
How would you estimate bacon for rootstock? Since I have grafted some of my avocados on bacon seedlings.
I’m also going to try planting trees with the graft union below soil level. They are grafted on hass or fuerte seedlings and therefore have a weeker rootstock. I think with a thick layer of mulch it shouldn’t be a big problem. Anyway, an avocado tree is probably a short lived tree in my place or at least a short remaing tree, becouse of regulary die back.
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I have had bad luck with Bacon seedlings, but we did have very cold weather both of the last two years (winter lows of -8.9°C and -8.3°C), and the seedlings I tested were only one year old. Out of 6 planted out in 2021, only one regrew from the roots in 2022. That one was killed back to ground again the next winter, and did not sprout this year.
Your soil may not get as cold as ours, so it may not matter as much, but I’ve moved away from using Bacon seedlings as rootstocks because if the roots won’t survive then that isn’t going to work!
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