I’ve never really attempted tropical fruit growing because I live in Northern California (probably 9a), but after a month of reading, and 3 days of free time looking at this forum, you’ve given me hope.
So far I’ve been thinking something like Second Red and/or Duke sounds good. Northrop also looks nice but I haven’t figured how to get it. I’m also trying to figure out how exactly to propagate some cuttings I got off the original Second Red avo tree mentioned by Marta.
Please, does anyone have better ideas for these avocado dreams of mine?
I would guess that most 9a areas in northern CA can successfully grow some of the hardiest types, but it would help to know your sunset zone, as well. Here’s a map:
The old Duke tree in Oroville is USDA zone 9 (recently moved to 9b) and sunset zone 9, so if you’re also in sunset zone 9 then Duke would be a pretty safe bet. The tree in the old train station is publicly accessible (in a semi-abandoned parking lot) to take scionwood, if you can make it to Oroville.
Marta has said that Second Red is one of the less hardy varieties among the ones she calls cold-hardy. My grafts never took, so I can’t speak personally to its hardiness.
As for Northrop, I got that from the UC research grove in Irvine, the post-doc who manages the orchard will cut any of their non-proprietary varieties for a requested nominal donation to their department at the university. But you would need to visit Riverside or Irvine in person, they don’t mail scionwood. I might be able to share some at some point, but I don’t send scionwood to CA because the state restricts it to protect the commercial growers from pests in other areas like CA and FL (and much of my collection comes from those areas).
Ok, by the looks of that map I’m kinda where sunset zone 17 and 1 meet (east of Crescent City). This place is kinda in a weird spot because we’re close enough to the ocean for its influence to partially mild out are climate but we have enough tall mountains in the way to stop most fog. If you go any closer to the ocean (such as Hiouchi) you’ll see redwoods and cool fog, while if you go further inland it gets quite hot in the summer and colder in the winter. As for the 2023 USDA Plant Hardiness Map I don’t really trust it in our area. That map actually has this property under a 9b square but I’ve always felt that’s uncharacteristic of a place that glimpses the upper teens during its harshest winters.
(Our sacrificial Home Depot “Mexicola Avocado” looks happy and unprotected so far)
I have found two options for getting Duke, scions from the tree (on google maps I even found a little marker on it) and Gary Gregg (Golden Gate Palms and Exotics) says he has some Duke seedlings in 15 gal pots for $285. Is the extra size worth 285 dollars and what’s your opinion on their taste before I go wild?
As for the Second Red I don’t really expect it to survive this far north but we have another property down by Santa Rosa that I’m hopeful for. My dad sprouted a hass from seed about 50 years ago and planted it by our barn there. He says what whenever the building was inhabited and therefore heated, it grew vigorously and even got taller than the building a couple times. These past few years it has been uncared for and dies to the root every winter. If it’s still alive I’m thinking that possibly grafting Second Red below the ground line might be enough to survive.
Keep in mind that Duke seedlings may be less (or more!) hardy than Duke itself, and might take many years to start fruiting. That seems like a steep price for a seedling, even 15 gallon, but I honestly don’t know what the going price is. I think growing your own seeds from the Oroville tree would be much more cost effective. 15 gal might be just two years old. My 15 gal Duke seedling grafted with Del Rio is only two years from seed.
I think you’ll be able to grow avocados pretty well there, maybe even some less hardy ones. Take a look at this tree just up the road from you, someone shared this with me and I don’t know the background, but looks like a healthy tree:
I haven’t tried the variety itself yet outdoors here, but this is a seedling of Mexicola Grande that has been unprotected so far in this admittedly mild fall/early winter, the same tree I’ve posted a few times recently, #37 in the project:
I will likely be distributing an own-root clone of that seedling in either the coming spring’s distribution or the following one, here’s the profile for that clone.
Avocado tree in Brookings? That’s pretty cool to see. If you know anything more about it (Facebook group mentioned or more precise location) I might be able to visit it while I’m in Brookings this coming Tuesday.
Good news! I just heard that my neighbor actually used to live over there, so today I asked if she still knows anyone in the area. She says that her best friend actually lives in Oroville and she’ll call to ask if they can find any seeds laying around (hopefully scions too) to mail over here.
I’m still a little concerned about Duke’s flavor/quality of avocado, I see many mixed reviews, some say great while others argue quite differently, but I’m uncertain of their credibility after finding places that’ll even call Aravapia great. You’ve gotten more experience with eating Dukes than most, how do rate them?
I know of a guy who has some really nice avocado trees growing in Hiouchi.
I don’t know which ones specifically. Here’s his explanation and some pics he posted.
There are quite a few avocado trees here and there across the North Coast. In my area, interior Mendocino County, more and more people are catching on to the fact that growing avocados can be done without much bother.
Unfortunately, despite a few that looked promising for awhile, Duke is one I’ve had 0% success so far. I have a half-finished aeroponics cloning box that I’m hoping will improve success rates for some of the finicky ones.
I’ll start by saying that this project I’m organizing is focused solely on hardiness at this point, and I’m not excluding any trees based on fruit quality. That might be further down the road for the project, but at this time anything that does well in our climate will become central to future breeding even if it has lousy fruit.
But more to your question, I’ve eaten only a single Duke fruit. That was not bad! I mean it wasn’t phenomenal, but no fiber, no weird flavors or textures. Similar consistency to Fuerte but without that nutty flavor of a good Fuerte.
My two oldest greenhouse grafts of Duke flowered profusely last year, but didn’t set any fruit. They are now more than twice as big as they were a year ago, so I’m hoping to get more chances to try them within a year.
I got a larger sample of those from Marta last year, and I thought they were OK, certainly not great, but also not terrible. Reminded me a bit of Bacon, but smaller, and a few ripened unevenly. I posted photos up in this thread:
So do I have to go to this UC grove in Irvine or just to their Riverside campus to get Northrop scionwood?
I have a sister in Temecula so she’s around 30-45mins from Riverside or 1.5 hours from Irvine. I want to try to convince her to go there and get a piece as my birthday present.
When I got mine, I met Eric Focht at their Riverside campus to get the bag of scionwood. That was a couple years ago, so I’m not sure if they’ve changed how things work. He asked for a donation to the university of about $10 per cultivar (5+ sticks of each), which had to be in the form of a check. Here’s his contact information so you can ask about it:
I was getting about a dozen cultivars, so maybe it’s more per variety if you only get one or two? They have a good list here, in case you want to get other things while you’re at it:
At least three cultivars in the greenhouse look ready to start flowering, though I’m guessing the cold temperatures will cause these buds to be very slow to open up.
This is Walter Hole, which has been threatening to flower for a couple months now:
Hey Swincher
Do you have any suggestions on a source for some pits from cold hardy varieties? I would like to do my own trial where i live in zone8 central Texas
It has been said that Lila is the same as “Opal,” but I’m not sure if that is true. I grafted Opal this year and also got one clone on its own roots. The graft is outside, and if you click on the link for it in the previous sentence you can see a recent photo. It had some damage from 28°F on the newest growth, so it seems somewhat less hardy than some of the hardiest varieties, but the damage was minimal and just on the newest leaves.
I know that John Panzarella used to sell seedlings of his huge Mexican criollo tree, and that he uses those as rootstocks for the grafted trees he sells. But that tree was very badly damaged in 2021 by 14°F, and I don’t see the seedlings listed on his website anymore. He’s down near Houston, but I think he will sometimes bring trees to Austin at least. If you give him a call and ask about avocado seeds he might be able to help out. His contact information is on his website.
My main source of seeds for the last two years has been a single very generous donor in Gainesville, FL, who’s doing his own avocado trial and sends me the extras. He asked me not to identify him, though, because he’s not interested in selling them and doesn’t want to get a bunch of inquiries about it. I did also get quite a few seeds from @Marta, but she had a poor avocado crop this year and didn’t have any extras to sell. It’s possible that she’ll have seeds next fall, though? Craig Hepworth also sold some Del Rio seeds via his FL Fruit Geek Instagram account, but I’m not sure if he can send to Texas (he does have a commercial nursery, though, so might be able to), and he’s probably all out of seeds by this point in the season.
Other than those, I’ve had pretty good luck posting requests for seeds on the tropical fruit forum, usually I get at least a few seeds each time I post there, but those are often people in Florida, and I believe you’re not allowed to get any avocado material from anyone in FL without a phytosanitary certificate, due to the laurel wilt quarantine.
Yes, I believe Opal and Lila are the same. I have one on an unknown rootstock. I was thinking about planting it with the graft union beneath the ground since the rootstock likely isn’t as hardy. What are your thoughts on that strategy? I’ve read mixed opinions online.
I’m surprised to hear it had damage at 28. Perhaps being so young. One of the reasons I chose the Lila is because it’s considered one of the three hardiest avocados.
They are definitely reported to be the same but I don’t know anyone who has grown them side-by-side to confirm that their leaf flushes are the same color, growth habit is the same, and that their fruit matches. I think there’s a tendency with the less common avocado varieties for people to say things are “the same” when they really mean “the fruit taste/look the same.”
I have a strong feeling, based on my two+ years of trying to get any actual data on avocado cultivar hardiness, that most of those kinds of claims are unsubstantiated and were based on some nursery saying it and then everyone else repeating it (and sometimes exaggerating it like a game of telephone), without any scientific verification of the claim. Do you know of anyone growing it in cold climates without any winter protection? Because it’s hard to say how hardy something is until you drop all protection. The two main YouTubers I know of who grow Lila both use pretty significant protection.
One of the scions I received had already started leafing out in transit, and I was able to root that. It’s the only successful scion rooting I’ve accomplished in many, many attempts. I have obviously had much better luck when some leaves aren’t removed, so I guess having it leaf out so soon after being cut was basically the same effect.
Forgot to address this part. I think it depends on the rootstock variety, but you might have better luck piling it high with mulch over the winter and then pulling it back in spring. If you do plant deeply, just keep in mind that it will almost certainly not form new roots above the root crown, so you will need to water very very deeply until the feeder roots find their way to the surface.
