I wasn’t very clear in my previous post. I knew Ortho didn’t contain near the amount of active ingredient per bottle, I just didn’t know if the label allowed the same amount of a.i. per acre (or per tree).
I crunched some numbers and it looks to me the Ortho product is applied at roughly the same rate (the lower rate) as the commercial counterpart Assail.
I’ll use peaches as an example. The Assail label uses a range of b/t 5.3 ounces and 8 ounces per acre. Assuming trees are planted at 100 trees/acre (and full grown) that would mean each tree would receive roughly 0.0159 ounces of a.i. (acetamiprid) per tree at the lower 5.3 ounce per acre rate with Assail 30 SG. (5.3 oz divided by 100 trees X 30% a.i.)
Using the Ortho product at 1.5 oz. per gallon of spray mix would equal an active ingredient of 0.0075 oz. of a.i. (acetamiprid) per gallon of spray solution. (1.5 oz. X 0.5% a.i.)
That would mean to get the commmercial rate of 0.0159 ounces of a.i. per tree, one would have to use 2.12 gallons of spray solution of the Ortho product per tree (0.0159 oz. of a.i. per tree [for commercial rate] divided by 0.0075 oz. of a.i. per gallon of spray solution for the Ortho spray).
Two gallons of spray for the Ortho sounds reasonable to me for a full sized peach tree.
I agree the cost is quite high for the Ortho. At the 2.12 gallon of spray per tree rate, that would take 3.18 ounces of the Ortho concentrate (2.12 gal. X 1.5 ounces/gal. of Ortho concentrate) which means each 32 oz. bottle of Ortho would treat roughly 10 trees with one application. The cost is $15 per bottle which means each tree would cost $1.50 per treatment.
One 64 oz. bottle of Assail would treat roughly 1200 trees with one application (64 oz. bottle divided by 5.3 oz/acre rate X 100 trees/acre). Assuming $370 per bottle, that would cost about $0.31 per tree.
Thank you pointing out the price of Assail Appleseed. I had no idea it was that expensive. The last time I bought Assail was last year and it was less than $200/bottle then. When I first saw the $370 price you listed, I thought it had to be a mistake, but I looked it up in a 2015 catalog, and sure enough it has almost doubled in price in a year. I’ve seen this happen before. Most of the time it’s due to some temporary shortage and the pesticide comes back down in price after a year or two, but sometimes not.
Funny, I easily cover a full sized peach tree to the dripping point with under a gallon of spray. I’ve noticed that the amount of spray I use tends to be much less than the big tree care companies, that use more powerful sprayers, for the same amount of coverage, but I’m surprised that I use half of what you use, Olpea.
Actually, I could probably cover 75 mature peach trees with one 25 gallon tank- certainly 50.
There is a site I manage with two separate orchards, each with over 50 mature (14-18 year old) trees. The sites have mostly apples on 111, plums, on myro, cherries on a free standing Geisla or Mazzard and Apricots, peaches, pears and nectarines on full sized root stocks. They still require only 25 gallons for each orchard to get full coverage.
I have a lot of Macintosh and Macoun in one of the two orchards and have never had more than a trace of scab, or any important insect damage in 14 years of management, so the coverage must be adequate. Some years I lose about a third of the Euro plums to late PC.
Anymore, I’m reluctant to convert Ag spray rates to backyard because there is such a wide variation in the amount of spray used per tree. I suppose what really matters is that the amount of a.i. per tree (or land area) matches the label.
I’ve mentioned this before, but for my airblast I use 100 gal. acre, or 1 gal./tree. My backyard sprayer takes more spray than that, so I reduce the amount of pesticide per gallon of spray solution accordingly.
Thanks much for this info, Ortho sounds like a decent product for homeowners. I have various insecticides for now, but will switch to that product in the future.
With the commercial products the mixing rates are confusing converting the per acre numbers.
I have a questions about CuPRO 5000 Fungicide. It is a Kocide generic.
Yet not listed for fruit? It is Copper Hydroxide 61.3%. I thought about using this product on fruit, but am not sure of application rates, and why it is not rated for fruit? Probably cannot sell OTC if it was? Only listed for ornamentals.
Kocide 3000 is 46.1% and you use 4.5 pounds per acre.
For some shrub fruit you use a rate 1.75 pounds.
I’m going to have to ask my math genius wife to figure rates out per gallon!
For different applications a rate for 1 pound would be useful to calcuate lower amounts for non-dormant sprays. OK, my head hurts now.
A mention of 400 gallons per acre of dilute solution for fruit trees. and also 150 gallons for small fruit, man this stuff is not easy to figure out.
Thanks Alan and Olpea for the great info. Keystone sells 18oz of Avaunt for $140. That’s more doable for a homeowner than Assail, especially if it has a longer shelf life. I’m thinking since Avaunt is a granular, it may have a longer shelf life than the liquid Assail, is that true? Dug around online for Avaunt shelf life and came up empty.
I’ll buy that. That’s pretty close to what I came up with right? I figured very crudely 5 32oz. bottles per acre. Since the $350 (minus shipping) jug of Assail will treat nearly 30 acres at the lowest rate for pommes, that would be 150 bottles. Actually probably a little less than that, maybe 125 bottles.
Still, that’s more than 1000% increase in cost.
I’m not attempting to make a case for hobbyists buying such large quantities, just an exercise to demonstrate the incredible cost savings of larger commercial materials.
That would also be a lot of HDPE plastic going to waste.
Contact the manufacturer- they usually have some means of contact, often e-mail, and generally provide that info promptly. Most often dry formulations last longer than wet ones of the same chemical. Not enough info there, I know.
I to have had problem with triazicide, I only have 12 trees. I think timing is everything to remember too. After reading were the PC will stop when the apple skins starts to get tuff. I can’t find that article now.
So I changed my spray program to spray more when the apples are pea size to say quarter turns out around 6-7 days about 3-4 sprays depending on weather and PC hits if any. Once they get around a little less then a quarter I watch for other signs of PC or any other insects. This has worked for me the last 3 years again just a backyard orchard and not having a stronger spray product for PC.
Love the new web site…
According to this link many Wettable Powders have 2 to 3 years or more before they start degrading. Practically speaking, I suspect most dry pesticides stored in low humidity at room temperature would last a very long time before any significant loss in potency.
Thanks Alan and Olpea for all your valuable advice. Also Richard and others.
Special thanks for Olpea’s calculation, I tried to do it myself, but didn’t know how to correlate amount/acreage to amount/gallon.
For me, I am not brave enough to try the stinky stuff yet.
So I will
read up on the ortho product,
try to make friends with farmers and orchard growers hopefully someone will share some of the"good stuff" with me
When spraying Triazacide I notice the leaves get coated fine by it just slides off of the plums and it looks to me there is very little on the fruit to kill insects. I haven’t had any PC in my area yet but in the future I will use a sticker with the Triazacide.
Triazicide contains gamma-Cyhalothrin, classified as type 3A mode of action.
Avaunt contains Indoxacarb, classified as type 22A mode of action.
They are significantly different.
Avaunt, and the practical difference (I know no chemistry) is that Avaunt spares many beneficial insects while Triazicide kills just about everything if it is working as advertised.
That does mean that Avaunt may not kill some pests you may at some point need to kill, like mites, true bugs, psyla, leaf hoppers, etc,.but it works on most of the common insect pests facing fruit growers east of the Mississippi.
Danzeb…you are lucky my friend. That is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone say they haven’t had any trouble with PC. I believe you though, because I know you are out on a point in heavily populated suburbs. I have no doubt however of PC’s ability to find you though. I don’t know PC personally, nor am I an expert, but the little of them I do know is they are a tough, resilient lot that is absolutely bent on destruction.
If they do show up, don’t count on Triazicide to save you…it won’t, but it will certainly be better than nothing.
