I do think its worth mentioning that honeycrisp is generally described as a very hard apple to grow well. I do think it is likely fireblight resistant from this info, but calling it a permaculture all-star seems contrary to what I’ve seen. in the north yes, maybe. but ive heard many issues with it anywhere with warmer summers.
Snarling,
I agree with that critique. My goal with this was to consolidate as much data as I could from legitimate studies. People can take from that what they want. The only issue I had with Alan’s post is he is referencing university studies with a different susceptibility rating than I read when I go to those sources.
1 Like
Western Oregon has good strong sun with a rain season that usually starts after Liberty reaches maturity, right? This is ideal for Liberty and brings out the best in it. To me, here in the NE, Liberty is not a great apple… just a passably good one most seasons. I used to manage an orchard with 50 Liberty apple trees and the staff there couldn’t give the apples away. When I started my nursery business it was one of my staple trees, but I don’t bother with it anymore. There are quite a few more recent DR varieties my customers seem to like more, such as Crimson Gold and Crimson Crisp.
I can’t say that Liberty apples I’ve grown here ever brought out a rose-like flavor. Yours must be very good.
My father planted a Freedom and two of the following, Liberty, Enterprise, Empire. The trees demonstrated good growth vigor, limb structure, fruit appearance if sprayed. That being said, he experienced some health issues and could not tend his trees for a spell. All three of these trees died quickly. I believe the black rot nailed them. Perhaps it was a combination of black rot and FB. This was central NC. Pathetic.
I’m of the opinion tree breeding is too narrowly focused in the US, and while demand has forced changes, newly developed trees tend to miss the mark. Some of the new varieties are decent such as the Crimson Crisp and Evercrisp, I still prefer the Stayman over either of these.
I honestly think a fanatical Joe Blow grower could do a better job simply due to the fact JB would be much more adventurous experimenting with apple parentage. I’ve never seen a Black Amish, Dixie Red Delight, Kinnairds Choice, Catawba Beauty, White Limbertwig, American Golden Russett, Black Limbertwig used in contemporary breeding programs.
2 Likes
Grown ability is definitely a thing. Core Blimey was specifically breed to grow well in the London metro. Which I would guess has some unfriendly to apple tree issues.
Also why Annie Elizabeth is one of my favorites in the hot, wet high disease pressure South. It grows very well. Even when I was out of action for 2 months and many new trees died from lack of watering.
1 Like
I think that conclusion is mistaken and would like to see the source of info stating otherwise.
It doesn’t have to be difficult to grow for home growers… I think it depends a lot on the site and that it suffers less from rot in partial shade.
I read the sources that were posted and they seem to agree 
i just skimmed
1 Like
I rate Honeycrisp right up there with Cox Orange Pippin for a hard to keep tree.
For sure both are what professional growers tend to loath most.
1 Like
Yeah, checking CHAT sources it looks like Honeycrisp is quite susceptible when it is establishing and growing vigorously but then becomes moderately resistant when it begins bearing heavy crops. It really comes down to relative vigor, it seems. I think that if you live in an area of high FB pressure you probably should dial down the N and irrigation to keep growth moderate. I think it’s relative resistance comes from its tendency to be a fairly low vigor grower, even when immature.
However, it seems most FB studies are done on immature trees and susceptibility is bound to drop a great deal once trees come into full bearing, which, hopefully, is the vast majority of a tree’s life.
Luckily, where I live in S. NY, free standing apple tree of all varieties I grow are almost never killed by FB. Periodically I will get a few strikes at a few sites but the damage tends to be minor.
2 Likes
I think it is useful to try and rank varieties for FB resistance. But
in my experience, cultural practices are important too. If you are located in an area with high FB pressure, then I would try to keep nitrogen levels in the blooming twigs low: don’t spray urea in the fall, no fertilizer in the spring till after bloom. High nitrogen encourages the growth of the bacteria. Also, I would wait to thin out applets till well after bloom. The open wounds on stems are entry points for bacteria. Also, know your variety and how much cutting out is needed. Varieties like King David and Liberty tend to be self limiting, so aggressive cutting is often not needed and will just open more of the tree’s vasculature to disease entry. Something like Spitzenberg on the other hand tend to let the infection run all the way into older wood, here one has to cut at the first sign aggressively. My experience based on a few years having an orchard in CA with a lot of FB.
4 Likes
Apogee has been discussed in this forum going back quite a few years. Here’s a brief summary article using a combination of PGRs from Feb 2025.
https://www.growingproduce.com/fruits/apples-pears/the-right-combination-can-limit-shoot-blight-in-tree-fruit/
Yes, I think the area where I live is good for Liberty. It would probably be even better in Eastern Oregon, where there is less rain. However, I pick Liberty in September after it’s had 3-4 months with zero rainfall, (this year was a little weird… we did have some rain) so it doesn’t crack or rot. It’s not prone to fireblight, but it does crack in rain. It stores very well for me, whereas some later supposedly great storing apples don’t necessarily, if they’ve been exposed to several days of rain.
That said, other people really like Enterprise, and I hate it here.
1 Like
In a situation like this, it’d be great to know whether the difference is due to (a) local growing conditions (e.g., terroir) or personal tastes. Do other local people (friends, family) like your Enterprise or not?
Here, I like Enterprise, especially if it is fully ripe. Opinion among my friends and family ranges from “Yeah, that’s good” to “OMG that’s awesome.” This year I made a couple gallons of sweet cider from Enterprise and everyone loved it; some described it as the best cider they had ever tasted. That could reflect the poor quality of commercial ciders, but if the point is to outdo whatever is in the store, we succeeded.
5 Likes
My mom (who lives with me) likes Enterprise and other trees that bear a lot of good, uniform looking, crunchy sweet apples that in her mind, “look like apples I want to eat.” My problem is the tree. I only had one (just cut it down) and it was badly infected with anthracnose every year. People with rain that is spaced out better probably do just fine. It probably would have done well for me when I lived in Maryland or Virginia. And maybe it would have been better for me on another rootstock. I’m not going to try it again, though.
Wonder if @jcf, who also has a lot of anthracnose, has had trouble with this fruit. I think the problem is that outside of a few months of actual rain, we have a “passive aggressive mist” and so the branches (and everything else) stay wet longer.
1 Like
Ok got it. I’ve had late season fungal rot on fruit but I haven’t noticed much tree damage. Also I haven’t yet sprayed later than late July. I’m going to extend spraying to late August / early Sept for these late varieties. Also I’ll probably pick sooner and mature them in storage.
To be fair to the Enterprise, I also have a ton of damage on a small Egremont Russet and a Tompkins King.
1 Like
I’ve had some rot on Egremont too. And Black Oxford. Is it a general problem with late-ripening varieties in humid climates?
Not in the humid northeast as far down as Westchester county and probably much further down, but that’s as far south as any of the orchards I manage are, but ones near the ocean where I am must be as susceptible as trees much further south more inland. I only see any kind of killing canker or galls on very old trees as a very rarely broken rule.
I suppose that trees without much vigor might behave differently than ones in the orchards I manage.
Such comments probably need some context to give them understandable meaning. What are you comparing it too from your own orchard?
My opinion is that Cornell limited itself by trying to create scab resistant apples that taste and look like Macintosh. Goldrush is the only DR apple on my top 10 list, and on good years it is at the top. However, its disease resistance is limited to scab as far as the pests I’m fighting. I control that with myclobutanil and only need a couple of spring sprays to do it.
To me and the majority of my customers, later arriving DRs like Crimson Gold taste better than anything Cornell created and I’ve stopped growing the Cornell creations in my orchard and nursery. William’s pride is the exception because of its earliness, but I still don’t sell it much. When it ripens I have too much good stone fruit to eat so a lot of the beautiful apples it makes on my own tree go to waste. I’ve mostly grafted it over to other varieties.
The Etter cross? Or are you misremembering the name
No, the apple that Adams County nursery sells from its DR category with this name was developed in a Czech breeding program and is sold under a different name in Europe. It isn’t golden, BTW. I guess it is spelled with a single word- Crimsongold. Thanks for asking- I had to look it up and had thought it was from the same breeding program as Crimson Crisp which is a PRI apple. CHAT made it easy for me. When I wrote it in two words it gave me your crab- a follow-up question got me the info I was looking for.
1 Like