Oh, sorry. Am I off topic? I don’t have 5 that are producing yet, and the ones from the store are all labeled “Fuyu” or “Hachiya” generally.
I’ve had H118, Hachiya, various “Fuyu”, and probably Rojo Brilliante treated to remove astringency, Chocolate that weren’t pollinated, and something else sold as Chocolate that was maybe one of the Maru.
So far my impression of those is that I prefer treated PCA persimmon so I’m looking forward to Saijo and Giombo producing.
I do not like PCNA that are soft, and prefer PCA to have lost all of their astringency at least by the moment they become translucent and still have jelly texture, not wet stringy goop.
Murky, you’re no more off-topic than others have been at times, and it’s all been very informative, so no big deal. I’m glad for your input, and agree that a jelly texture sounds like an ideal persimmon!
Sounds like a post by @Persimmon1 who is also on this forum and could potentially give you an update.
Edit: Looks like he already has earlier in this thread! And I would concur with him - unpollinated Giboshi/Smith’s Best has also been the standout kaki for me in terms of flavor.
For the last few years I have harvested my giboshi fruits on halloween, Oct 31st. It has kind of become a ritual of sorts, LOL. They are all color ripe at this time and a very few of them will have started softening. I always wait to harvest any asian persimmon when all traces of green are completely gone. I had the most fruits this year than I can ever remember and I ended up freezing several zip lock bags of fruit. Frozen asian persimmons are delicious eaten this way, simply take out however many you care to eat and let them set at room temp. for about 45 minutes to an hour. You will have the best sorbet you can imagine and if your not afraid of the calories a little heavy cream poured over the top once they have partially thawed takes them over the top. You have to try it to believe it.
@Persimmon1 and @hambone and any others that grow Giboshi. How big of a tree is Giboshi and what is the fruit size compared to Saijo for instance? I have a Giombo I’ve thought of putting in, but I think it can make a big tree (and likes to grow straight up) and was hoping that Giboshi would be a smaller tree and a better fit for my yard. Thanks.
I generally avoid these types of persimmon discussions because I don’t care for eating soft persimmons at all. I like firm fruit. I don’t care what gelatinous muck tastes like because I’m not going to eat gelatinous muck. So, keeping that in mind, I’ll give you my opinion on the best persimmons:
Suruga
Maru
Coffecake
Maekawa
Zenji Maru
Hyakume
And sooner or later, someone is going to import this Asian nonastringent into the US:
Kuroama
That is another thing I love about giboshi is that it is a dwarf tree, mine is only about 8-9 foot and that is without pruning. It could be kept smaller if needed. The fruits are acorn shaped compared to saijos more egg shaped fruits. I would say the fruits are medium sized on average. They can vary a little in size but not a whole lot.
It is the 1st to ripen compared to hanafuyu and saijo although those 2 are not far behind it. I usually have all persimmons harvested before the second or third week in Nov.
@zendog, I don’t grow Saijo, but Giombo fruit are roughly twice the size of Giboshi. My Giombo tree also requires more pruning to keep the fruit within reach with a stepladder.
@Yoda what type of persimmon are you most interested in - D. kaki (astringent or nonastringent, pollination constant or variable), D. virginiana, or hybrids between the two species?
I have a little more experience with kakis, and I would say of the ones I’ve grown and fruited, Giboshi has the best flavor. Giombo is the biggest. Tecumseh is the most consistent and productive. I tasted my first Eureka this past year and was impressed with it.
For me, the non-astringent kakis have all been very similar in terms of flavor and fruit quality. I like the non-astringents and am happy to grow them, but there aren’t any particular standouts.
Nikita’s Gift is the only hybrid that has fruited for me, and it was very good too.
I’m looking forward to tasting the pollination variable kakis, other hybrids, and named D. virginiana cultivars in the future.
I bet some of these astringent persimmons can have the astringency removed pretty easily, and be eaten firm, with more flavor, or at least sugar, than some of those on your list.
@ncdabbler - Because my tasting experience is still pretty limited - generic Hachiya and Fuyu sampled on a visit to San Diego - I need more exposure to alternatives before saying I definitely prefer one type over another. That said, the descriptions different folks have given about their favorites leads me to believe I will most like Kakis or PVNAs. So far I have small trees of Kassandra, David’s Kandy, Giboshi, Kyungsun Ban Si, Matsumoto Wase Fuyu, Chocolate (Maru), and Coffeecake (Nishimura Wase). I also did several grafts last year, including JT-02, but can’t say if they succeeded until Spring has sprung. Hoping to get a few other scions over the next few weeks, including Nikita’s Gift.
That’s the order today, except for Kuroama which would be higher on the list. It might be different on some other day. Flavors also change depending on when you pick them, and how long you let them sit.
I have eaten Saijo and a couple of others hard with the astringency removed, but I haven’t eaten enough to give them a fair chance. So far though, I have not been impressed.
As long as a fruit has a minimum of sweetness I like, I don’t need it to be ultrasweet like many people do. But even so, both Maekawa and Suruga have produced higher brix readings than Saijo when taken at the same level of firmness, so I don’t think that removing the astringency from Saijo is ever going to help it much. It’s not any sweeter than those two and I don’t detect any more flavor either. It doesn’t seem to fully develop its flavor until soft.
The oddity is that all persimmons, like all dates, are astringent anyway. Different cultivars differ solely on when they lose the astringency. I just prefer persimmons that lose their astringency while still hard. With dates I can go either way, because those that lose their astringency while hard are spectacular, and most of those those that lose their astringency when soft are still solid, and do not turn into a gelatinous mess.
Interesting, Saijo is often described as early ripening and excellent, yet some folks describe it as not among the first kaki to ripen for them.
I think I’d read that it isn’t especially high brix, so I assume it must have great flavor and texture plus maybe cultivation advantages to be so popular in spite of small fruit.
Saijo does not ripen very early for me. I had to pick all of mine on Nov 1 because of an impending hard frost. They were a yellowish green at that time. They all eventually softened into high quality fruit indoors, but some like Miss Kim, Ichi Ki Kei Jiro, and Nishimura Wase were fully colored by then.
@PharmerDrewee – That’s good info for me as I’m planning on Saiyo and Miss Kim. My IKKJ are pretty well colored by Nov 1 too. I picked roughly 1/3 as late as 11/15. That was after a frost (~28-30 F briefly) but not a hard freeze. They were fine.
I’m glad for your input, and agree that a jelly texture sounds like an ideal persimmon!