Do they exist? Non astringent kakis that reliably survive in zones 6b or colder.
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I too would love to know.
My Rossyenka and Nikitas gift survive 6B for several years now (very top of Denmark), down to -18c sometimes.
However the fruit has never rippened yet
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I am in southern TN… zone 7b.
I am trying out. IKKJiro and Cardinal asian non astringent persimmons here.
IKKJiro is in year 2 now… Cardinal was started this spring.
They are supposed to be able to survive 0-F or possibly a bit lower.
The last two winters we had lows of 3F and 2F.
My IKKJiro was small enough that I could protect it last winter and I did thru that cold spell.
It is 8 ft tall now… so no protection this winter.
My Cardinal is still quite small so I will be able to protect it this winter.
Once they get a season or two behind them they should increase in cold hardiness a bit.
I dont know of any non astringent asians reported to be more cold hardy.
I think that around 0-F is about as low as they go.
Good Luck
TNHunter
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“Cold hardy” is a matter of degree, right? Surviving down to 0-5 F is pretty good. I wish my figs were that cold hardy. Unfortunately, the average winter low in Zone 6B is 0 to -5 F with excursions to lower temps. Despite wishful thinking otherwise, it doesn’t seem that any non-astringent Kaki can reliably survive -10 F.
I’m in the new Z7A but used to be borderline Z6B. My three in-ground IKKJs, planted in 2015, suffered some damage in their first two winters but no damage afterwards until 2023. In early Feb 2023 (here in Z7A!) nighttime temps dropped briefly to -7 F one night and -5 another. The trees were nearly killed. All wood less than 3 years old was killed. The trees seriously looked dead but then budded out later, many weeks after everything else. Now, a full season and a half later, they’ve bounced back but still hold only a few fruits compared to 80-100 per tree in 2021 and 2022.
Apart from susceptibility to absolute cold, you have to consider sensitivity to late frosts – which is a risk for any tree that breaks dormancy early. One positive characteristic of IKKJ is that it seems to be a little slow to break bud, so has never been seriously damaged by frosts here (25-30 F) in late April and early May.
Bottom line, I won’t grow other non-astringents here except in pots.
Meanwhile, I’m experimenting with Giboshi (PVNA), Sheng (PCA), and Saijo (PCA) in the ground; but this may be a big stretch, especially Saijo.
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Jiros are lately sold here in zone 7. But the accompanying instructon is to plant them in locations sheltered from NW ( where our Arctic blasts usually come from). In borderline 7-6 planting next to buildings is recommended plus some winter protection, just in case we have an excursion to -17 or 22°C.
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In my experience, planting near buildings (especially a south / west exposure) substantially increases the odds of an early exit from dormancy. And that almost ensures severe damage from any spring frosts. I killed two apricot trees that way. 
I’ve had Chinebuli for 7 or 8 years in 6b, now 7a. I am on a west facing slope, so it’s a bit of a microclimate.
Some argue it’s just IKKJ or Jiro, I just go by it was sold to me as from England’s.
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That is logical. I think the SE side is the lesser of three evils.
The problem is that you want a site that gets full sun in summer. A S or SW location would optimize summer sunlight. Anything E would be at least partly shaded.
But persimmon is really a temperate-zone tree. Even though it prefers full sun, it does not prefer high heat. The south / full sun side of a house might be OK in an area that stays 70s in summer; but if summer temps tend to the high 80’s and 90’s generally, the south / full side side of the house might get >100 F. That would not be good.
It is not a South facing wall in full sun, that is advised but close proximity to a structure which is expected to break chilling winds and loose some temperature from heating or accumulated day heatI. Full sun is an issue in a cold climate even when the tree is free-standing. But I don’t think a persimmon requires full sun. My cold sensitive variety actually gets sun from 2p.m. in the middle of summer, it does fine and fruits fine. It is shaded by a wall of hazels, mulberry, elders, catalpas, ash and walnut and I believe that actually helps to delay the bud break. We weren’t able to plant it by a building so we grew an elder bush on its NW to at least break the wind.
If I had a finicky variety and an available spot, I’d probably plant it on the SE side of the house and have maybe a hedge that could provide partial shade winter through May and could be then pruned drastically like privet planted at a reasonable distance on the Southern side…
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Edible Landscaping seems to have one of the best collections of cold hardy Khakis, has anyone have experience with any of these varieties?
- Tam Kam Kaki, Non-astingent
- Maekawa Jiro Kaki, Non-astringent
- Wase Fuyu Kaki, Non-astringent
- Sheng Kaki, astringent
- Smith’s Best Kaki, astringent
- Hira Tanenashi Kaki, astringent
- Hana Fuyu Kaki, Non-astringent
- Great Wall Kaki, astringent
These are all advertised as hardy to zone 6, but I am skeptical given others’ comments in this thread. Looks like their nursery is in located in zone 7b
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Here’s my actual experience . . . . I’m in the new Z7A. In 12 years here, I’ve seen 0 to -3 F in probably half the winters, -7 F in Feb 2023. The non-astringent variety Ichi Ki Kei Jiro, which I planted in 2015, experienced the worst of it. All 3 of my IKKJ trees were nearly killed in 2023. Specifically, all the 1-2 year old wood died. I concluded that IKKJ is hardy to roughly -5 F but cannot survive more than brief exposure to lower temps.
Some people report roughly similar performance from Tam Kam, Chinebuli, and some others.
Here’s what I’ve read:
In general, PCA (astringent until ripe) persimmons are a diverse group. Some varieties are reported to be OK to -5 or even -10 F. Based on positive reports, I planted Smith’s Best and Sheng (and grafted Miss Kim) a few years ago, hoping they would survive here in the ground. I’ve protected them so far, and they have survived. This winter I will leave them unprotected. Fingers crossed.
I also planted Saijo but honestly I expect it to be killed.
PCNA (non-astringent, even if not ripe) is not a very diverse group. Most will be killed at 0 to +5 F. A few, as noted above, may survive to -5 F but not much lower. As noted, I planted IKKJ here and it has barely survived. I would not try any other PCNA in the ground here.
Key context: You ask about Zone 6. In Z6A, the AVERAGE winter low temperature is -10 F. There are deviations below. So some winters may hit -15 F or worse. My take-away is that NO Kaki is hardy in Z6A.
If you live in Z6 and want to grow persimmons in the ground, try the toughest American-Asian hybrids. Kassandra and Mikkusu/JT-02 are reportedly good to -15 F or marginally lower. I grow both here; they have survived -7 F. Kassandra had no damage; Mikkusu had severe damage to 1-year old growth.
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Anecdotal experience with survivability to specific temps doesn’t tend to be very reliable as a tree goes through a season at various levels of hardiness in any given season and also harden off more some winters than others. If temps are especially mild in Dec and Jan, a tree will be much more vulnerable to a sudden deep dive in Feb. It certainly is never about a hard rule of any given temp.
Same species can be much hardier to cold in regions where winter temps almost never fluctuate much.
One thing that will help any Kaki at least survive is to make a mound of soil against its trunk in Nov and cover that with an airy mulch. You will at least end up with a healthy few inches of trunk and all that root to push it back to size.
There is a university created chart of a range of species’ (not persimmons) vulnerability to cold that predicts when and how much damage is done to flower buds at various stages of development and temps- in the real world this chart is not very accurate in its predictions of damage in my experience.
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Excellent info. Will probably experiment with Hybrids and try IKKJ or similar and protect it for 2-3 seasons in zone 6b. How would you describe the flavor of hybrid persimmons compared to full virginiana / kaki?
a good read when you have the time:
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