Understanding GRIN Data

Hello Everyone,

For those of you who have ordered scions from Geneva, can you please help me to understand how to correlate their observations to traditional cider categories (Sharp, Bittersharp, Bittersweet, Sweet)?

Acid, Tannin
Sharp (>0.45%, <0.2%)
Bittersharp(>0.45%, >0.2%)
Bittersweet(<0.45%, >0.2%)
Sweet(<0.45%, <0.2%)

Here’s a few example apples with what I believe they are known as:
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/search.aspx?q=PI%20589073 (Dabinett bittersweet)
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/search.aspx?q=PI%20594108 (Medaille d’Or bittersweet)

Getting the brix is relatively straight-forward. It’s the soluble solids field. And acid could be fruit flesh oxidation, where oxidizing > 5-10% would be considered a sharp, correct?

But what about tannins? I thought fruit flesh flavor could be it but the sweet and acid categories are confusing.

1 AROMATIC STANDARD: JONAGOLD
1,4 AROMATIC, SWEET
2 SWEET STANDARD: FUJI
3 SUBACID STANDARD: MCINTOSH
4 ACID STANDARD: PURITAN
5 ASTRINGENT STANDARD: M. CORONARIA

Any ideas on how to make sense of their data?

Aaron

This is an old post, but came up when I was searching for GRIN and how to interpret the data.

Classifying Cider Apple Germplasm Using Genetic Markers for Fruit Acidity
I’ve been working backwards from this Cornell paper published in 2021. There’s a flowchart explaining how the authors whittled down the database selections. The results from their trials are in a table at the end of the paper. Those results were also added back to GRIN and are searchable:
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/method?id=496644
For instance, here’s all the accessions where the TA was analyzed:
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/methodaccession?id1=375603&id2=496644

Thaks for keeping this thread alive!

The flow chart makes sense to me as a quick sort method. Give me all the obvious spitters (that are big enough to use). And then come back around and pick up some more cider varieties from historical texts. No idea what the actual selection criteria for those N=21.

The confusion for me is that aromatics, acidity, sweetness, astringency, tannin can all be different things but here they all seem to get lumped into a single category indicator.

Would be interesting and worthwhile to test GRIN accross the board and collect aromatics, tannins and acids, not just the larger than crab varieties. Then breeders would have a potential for true comparison. Because we sort of know that there is a lack of diversity in the modern apple.