Wanting bare dirt around trees

I’ve got wood mulch around some trees, shredded leaves and grass clippings around some trees, but would really prefer bare dirt/minimal wood chips in places.

I would like to use herbicide but I’m not sure what to spray or when or how. At this point I need a “for dummies” version. At this point, it’s not feasible for me to use cardboard, landscape fabric, wood chips or mulch. So unless I’m missing something it’s probably a chemical solution.

I have both broadleaf weeds of the usual types and also Bermuda grass, crab grass and maybe a tiny bit of some fescue or something.

The two places I’m most interested in doing this for are a group of mature but sad pear trees and a group of one year old peach trees. Neither is going to do well with the weeds and grass competing with them.

Lots of herbicides (like pre-emergents) say no trees younger than 2 or 3 years. I think the assumption is for these, you’re going to spray and hit the trunk a little but the herbicides don’t harm the older trees? Am I really supposed to spray them around and they get on the tree and that’s okay?

I’d also use glyphosate but it makes me nervous because I once killed a tree accidently. I’ve also heard how it happened to others . People using glyphosate - how close do you spray? any tips?

I’m thinking I’d like something like @scottfsmith’s orchard picture below. (I wish my grass looked that nice too)

Also seen many others with cleared areas under their trees. How do you do it? There are some wood chips but I think you must be doing more? If I had so few woodchips, the whole thing would be weeds pretty shortly and that grass/clover would be creeping in.

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Is the only desire for having bare dirt in wanting to reduce the competition between the trees and what is growing beneath them?

This helps:

Yes. To reduce competition and remove a habitat for pests.

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I maintain a mulch ring around my fruit trees.

Suppress weeds, retain moisture.. and gives the guy that mows my orchard an easy way to mow around them without getting to close to my tree cages or trees.

If I just put wood chips down once a year .. in the early spring… Some weeds will eventually sprout or creep in… and I have to take those out manually.

What I am doing now is applying different kinds of mulch 3 or 4 times a year.

Wood chips, chop and drop green mulch, fall leaves, grass clippings.

It all just turns to compost… It is like the ground is devouring it.

I am hoping this eliminates or seriously reduces my need to fertilize.

I bought a bagging 21 inch mower.. and collected a bunch of nice material late fall and over winter months (a mix of chopped up leaves and grass clippings).. that I am still using to apply a mulch layer this spring to all fruit trees (30+).

TNHunter

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If starting from grass and weeds I would still start with mulch (cardboard under wood chips is what I use) to kill everything and within a season or two it is almost gone. Would be easier to maintain once you start from a blank slate

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I dont see why you’d want bare dirt instead of mulch. Mulch keeps things from drying out

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Using various types of mulch as does TNHunter in his above post works great since he is alternating between carbon and nitrogen sources. The results will eventually be compost with nutrients the tree can use.

If however you suspect that you have a vole problem then the luxury of using mulch and compost is not possible. Especially not possible is using things like cardboard, newspaper or conventional landscape fabrics to control weeds. The bare ground strip under the trees technique is about all thats left for growers such as myself who battle not just voles but some perennial grasses that can reach 8’ tall if not mowed or killed.

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I do not want bare dirt under my fruit trees.. but i did find out accidently that pine straw and pine shavings make that happen.

Sold as ‘bedding’ in WM TSC RK..etc etc.

Some folks use it in their gardens etc as weed suppression.. YMMV.

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FYI I do mulch my orchard, but it’s expensive for all the trees I have so I do it every other year. It starts to look like dirt in spots after 1.5 years.

I did a lot of hand weeding initially to get the beds going, now I do spot glyphosphate one time in the late spring only on the deep-rooted weeds, and pull the rest. Originally I did this row mulching because the trees were young and I wanted to eliminate competition, but I could probably let them go to grass again at this point. The dirt is annoying in wet weather, my shoes can get really muddy. Grass is much better when wet.

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@snarfing @CWC At my last count I had around 80 mature fruit trees (which I know is small compared to others but a lot for me). A bunch of them are larger (I bought the house with them) and spread out over an acre. Mostly, I don’t care about the grass getting close to these older trees, but I have about 20 pear in one area that just aren’t doing well. I’d like to reduce their competition a bit.

Last year, I planted 22 peach trees and 7 apricot trees. Young peach trees particularly hate weeds. I was hand weeding and mulching around them but I got short on time and just dumped more mulch. It got too deep. Some trunks got damaged. I have a full time job - so I can’t spend all my time weeding. =(

@jcf I’m in a weird in between place where I’m too small to be a big grower and do big grower things, but too big to be buying homeowner sized things and doing everything the way I would if I only had 20 trees or something.

I over mulched and didn’t have enough time to hand weed. The mulch kept getting piled around the trunks. I think part of a couple tree trunks actually got some sort of rot. I don’t think it was voles… at least I hope not. I pulled the mulch away from the trunks and I think most of the damaged ones will recover.

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Bare, minimal dirt in my climate had trees struggling due to soil rapidly drying out. Compost then cardboard, then 2” cedar mulch (can’t easily get racial wood chips). Trees do fantastic and even after 3+ weeks no rain it is still slightly moist underneath.

Farther farm property I used woven landscape fabric instead of cardboard then same mulch on top. Pass every 4-6 weeks to pull up the sides of the fabric to break any roots and weedwack to the edges.

5 years with no irrigation and have not lost a tree. Bud118 and OHxF87/97 so good roots.

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I’m curious about too much mulch being the problem (I also use too much because it is easier to pile it on while I’m doing it than having to do it more frequently) - was the only issue being that it was too deep around the trunks? Would pulling the mulch farther away from the trunks solve the problem?

I’ll try to answer your question directly.

I use in my home orchard a combo of herbicide, basically glyphosate and a pre emergent. I’ve gone to using mulches to try and eliminate my herbicide usage and create a better environment for my babies. Also to get the best weed control over a longer period of time once the mulch is in place. Oh..I also use the hand and back method too…pulling and hoeing. I don’t want to spray a lot.

I ran a large tree nursery and we basically sprayed glyphosate and preemergents for years so we had a tall fescue strip between the rows and a band of bare ground 24” on both sides of the trees. We had irrigation when needed, and used drip the last 22 years.

I found some of the pre emergent herbicides I used are not labeled for fruit trees. It may be that they didn’t want to label it due to cost or possible absorption by the trees. Probably the first.

I found that Simazine or Princep, Pendimethalin (Prowl or Pendulum), and Indaziflam which is Alion are the best options for me and labeled for young fruit trees. There are some others but I don’t want to use them.

Preen is a common herbicide used in gardens and landscapes but what I bought didn’t have fruit trees on the label. I’m a by the label kind of guy.

Simazine will control mainly grasses, and a some broadleafs. It has a half life of 6 months. So you can build it up over time. It’s water solubility is high, so it will move. I wouldn’t recommend it in sandy soils. It’s a root inhibitor. It does a decent job and needs touched up after a while. It’s cheap but weeds with resistance will build up, like Pineapple weed. It may only be labeled for two year old trees. When the ground is settled due to it being water soluble.

Pendimethalin can be used. It’s most common use is controlling crabgrass in turf. You can use it at a rate that will last 6-8 months. It has a lower water solubility so it last longer and doesn’t move. It is bright yellow and will stain things pretty bad. It fades and is not noticeable after use in the field but your sprayer will take stains. It is pretty effective, has a broad range of control and will last a season. It’s relatively cheap and easy to use. The staining is a draw back. You need to read labels, as some are labeled for fruits and some aren’t. Same chemical but the labels are different. I use Pendulum Aqua cap.

Alion is labeled for fruit trees. It is the same thing as Marengo which isn’t labeled for fruit trees. We used Indaziflam (Marengo) in shade trees and it worked great. It last the full season, controls a lot of the glyphosate resistant weeds like Marestail and is pretty much stable in the environment and doesn’t move much. The draw back is that it is expensive to buy a bottle. I think you can get a more generic at Keystone called Rezelion for $380 a quart. Ouch…but you only use about 2 -4 oz per ACRE! I have a long drive and lots of non weed areas so it’s worth it to me. If I spray once a year my exposure is less than having to spray twice. I like it regardless of the cost. It’s a good product. I load a 30 gallon sprayer with about 2 oz in it. I figure my quart will last me about 3 years. I mix it with glyphosate at 2%. In gravel areas I use it stronger.

As for glyphosate you need to remove all the suckers a day or two prior to spraying. You need to avoid products which have additives like surfactants. They make it work better by penetrating leaves better but it can also penetrate the bark, especially young green bark trees. Roundup Pro is a good example. Don’t use it. I buy just gylphosate at my agra dealer. I add my AMS and a non ionic surfactant that I trust.

Turn your pressure low so you don’t have a lot of mist. I use a flat fan nozzle on my spray wand, not a cone, and 30 psi. I get better control. I back it down to 20 psi if I’m worried about drift. Beware not to get it on the trunk if you can, especially on young trees. If you are uncomfortable put a shield on your tree like a plastic tree protector. I don’t use a shield. If something is right up against the tree, I pull it.

In the nursery young Crabapple was a tree we were cautious around and would usually put the white plastic tree guards on prior to spraying with a tractor mounted nozzle driving at 3 mph. There was some discussion that it caused bark to split later on in the winter.

We didn’t worry about getting a little on the trunks of woody shade trees.

Read thoroughly your labels and follow them reguardless of what I’ve said here.

Some products are labeled for fruit trees, but only non bearing fruit trees. I don’t want that. It’ s for big orchard operations looking at the cost per acre early on. Read the label.

Hope this helps and might be more than you are looking for, but I have a lot of professinal experience doing it, and thought I’d share my 2 cents.

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We abhor herbicides here generally. Like now we are debating hitting fireweed with it.

Thank you to everyone who has responded. I really appreciate the constructive suggestions. I never thought I would want to be spraying herbicide like this. I recognize that if I had more time or more money, I could find ways around this, but I need to be practical. Last summer I couldn’t keep up with weeding and my job and other responsibilities. I also don’t plan to go crazy and spray the stuff everywhere - just the specific problem areas.

So my issues with mulch are:

  1. Even with the mulch last year I couldn’t keep up. Weeds would grow through it and be 6 feet tall in a blink. Then because there was mulch, I couldn’t mow. I did use a string trimmer a bunch, but that’s pretty tedious (and you have to be super careful).

  2. I’m not going to be able to get as much mulch as I did last year. In my area, wood chips and mulch aren’t free. People pay to have them. Last year, I paid a guy with a hydraulic chipper to take care of some brush and tree limbs. I was paying quite a lot and he was still upset when I asked him to leave the wood chips - he thought he was going to take them and get paid by someone else to drop them off.
    I do use clippings and leaves but there’s only so much of that.

  3. Even though I try to keep the mulch away from the trunks, I find it just creeps up when I’m not looking. Also, I kept putting more on to try and suppress the weeds which likely didn’t help. I have some trunk damage on some trees from something. It could have been rodents or rot. Luckily it wasn’t so bad. My neighbor had several apple trees destroyed last year. She didn’t even know there was a problem until they were looking terrible. Then, we pulled the mulch away and the trunks were all chewed up.

@JAF Thank you for the suggestions. I am also a label reader (and I went and got my pesticide applicator license and half the test could be summed up by “read the label”).

Interesting you mention marestail. I just looked it up. I had a new weed I didn’t recognize apparently it’s the rosette form or marestail. fun.

I looked up all the things you mentioned and I put a couple notes at the end. I haven’t made any firm decisions, but I did already get some glyphosate since I knew I’d be using it on some noxious weeds and to clear a small patch.

It turns out I won’t be spraying with glyphosate around the peaches since in VA, with stone fruit, you’re only supposed to use wiper application. I’m most interested in using it to spot treat and do some strips near the peaches - so that will work out well.

I did get the boring generic kind with no surfactants and nothing else added. Also, I know about the AMS because I have very, very hard water.

Pendimethalin- the orchard use one is Prowl. Can be used as a pre-emergent around young trees. Unfortunately, doesn’t seem to have good efficacy on the most common broadleaf weeds I’m dealing with near the peaches. Would be good if I had to deal with crabgrass or foxtails or purslanes.

INDAZIFLAM (ALION) - recommended for use for most annual weeds w/trees established three full years. No info on efficacy but lots of people like it.

Simazine (Princep, Caliber) - Trees at least one year old. Good on some annual grasses and a few others. cheaper than others. This would probably be good near my older pear trees where the grasses are problematic. (would have to kill off the cool season grass first with something else).

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I use cardboard. I cut them into the desired size then cut a line down to the middle. Then put it around the tree with a thick layer of paper newspaper under the open cracks.

That keeps the weeds down for more than a year. I put more cardboard down when needed (in reality it’s when I have time).

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I use these rubber tree rings and they work great; zero maintenance. If you want to go a cheaper route, plastic sheeting will block 100% of weeds and help retain moisture.

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I do not live at my Orchard and I travel a lot during the summer. I needed someway to have moisture retention so that I can just water about every 10 days but still have guys cut my grass and not damage my trees . Not sure if it will work for someone else, but I do it every February and then do not have to do anymore until I pick it up in December I use 48“ x 48“ cardboard pallet covers , plastic border , wood mulch, screen to keep the mulch off of the trunk . I get the pallet covers for free many grocery stores discard them. They only cost is really the wood chips. The water runs on top of and beneath the cardboard to the wood chips. You have to put some weights initially to hold it down but after a few weeks, it lays flat.

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