That line made me laugh pretty good!
The cantaloupe ones taste like cantaloupes because of other things in combination with the β-carotene. There are also orange ones I’ve grown that taste like other fruits and not like cantaloupe.
I haven’t had any normal, prolycopene orange tomatoes with the tangerine gene. I want try them in the future and compare with the β-carotene types.
There’s a farm close by that I’ve talked about something like this with. When I get my gardens more established here I’ll revisit them with the idea. They want perennials specifically since they already do an annual garden. So the focus would be on perennial vegetables, nuts, & fruits.
We became friends after meeting them once and my mom gave them some sweet potato slips for their garden. After some time they brought up the idea; they raise animals on pasture and don’t specialize in horticulture, while I do. They’re preparedness-minded people so for them it’s about increased self-sufficiency.
Make friends with likeminded people down there, even if they don’t have land they can give you pointers and tell you things you haven’t heard. Local growers & sellers at farmers’ markets might be a good place to start. I’m not a guerrilla gardener so I can’t really give advice on that.
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This is a cool project. Definitely let us here know when you release some of your new tomatoes. I know I’d love to buy them! 
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ah… would they be interested in starting perennials from seed?
Thank you, they are very very hard to find! Almost non-existent where I live 
(like a Shiny Pokemon, I know they’re real, I just never met them - well in person that is). Hopefully I can get to a Farmer’s Markets are talk with the people there, maybe even network. Where else do you find preparedness-minded people? Probably as far away from the cities/suburbs & more rural areas.
On a side tangent, Stommel developed high carotene tomatoes about 35 or 40 years ago. 97L97 is one example which is a paste type tomato that is intense orange and has about 40 times as much carotene as ordinary tomatoes. How it does it is with a pair of genes, one is b^og which is the beta carotene gene. It gives about 6X as much carotene. The other is an amplifier gene which basically turns b^og on at a very high rate and runs the carotene up to 40X. Caution that this is not a tomato that tastes good eaten fresh. I have used it to boost the carotene content of sauce and canned juice/pulp. If mixed with sweeter tomatoes at about 10% the result is 4X carotene content that tastes very good. I need to grow some 97L97 this year for fresh seed. It is a unique tomato.
As for the tangerine gene, one of the best is Kelloggs Breakfast or it’s potato leaf variant commonly called KBX. I’ve considered crossing KBX with 97L97 to see if I could combine tangerine with the amplifier gene. It would be interesting if the result was a more intense orange fruit that tastes as good as KBX.
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It’s something I’d have to talk to them about on a case by case basis + taking into account their goals. I’ve considered seeds for rootstocks & getting nut trees started. Off and on I’ve been building a proposal based on their lifestyle. We’d have to review again before buying any seeds/plants.
We’d also have to prepare the ground first since it’s a steep slope covered in plants at this time. Assuming it’s a go, the earliest I would expect that to begin this upcoming fall, but it depends on whether we have the funds + time to do it.
In urban areas, anyone starting or involved with a community garden perhaps. There’s also ranges…but I don’t go to a range so IDK. My impression of the pew pew kind of preppers is that they’re preparing for war more than rebuilding society after whatever disaster(s) they’re concerned about. Without a focus on resupply, they’re gonna lack resupply. People like that might be either an opportunity or a brick wall. I have no idea which.
Most people out here are not gardening-focused or preppers. They typically live in houses on small lots and live suburbanite lives with greater travel times. They will grow a couple tomatoes or a raised bed or two but they aren’t bold. There are definitely preppers out here though, maybe 10% at most.
This is just the regular B-type gene you see in Jaune Flamme &c?
Similar to the purple lettuce. Purple lettuce has an intense red color gene, RLL2A, which makes a deep red leaf. But it also has some RLL4 gene that increases the anthocyanin production in sunlight all the way to a purple. Without the intense red gene, the purple does not appear.
Outredgeous, which I believe has the RLL2A/intense red gene but am not 100% sure.
Pandero, which has the amplifier.
They’ve been commonly recommended on forums. I’ve put both on the list for later projects involving larger tomatoes.
What from the KBX are you after? Is having both the pigments what you’re after or is it just a flavor specific to Kellogg’s types + β-carotene?
If the amplifier relies on the regular B-type gene, I don’t think it’s possible to get a tomato plant with both pigment types. IIRC, the Tangerine gene is recessive to the dominant lycopene-producing allele. And that dominant allele is needed for β-carotene synthesis to happen via B-type gene. So if you go recessive, you don’t get β-carotene. And if you go dominant, you don’t get prolycopene.
If your amplifier relies on a different β-carotene gene than I don’t know.
But if you did a larger population, hypothetically you could have it to where some of your plants are β-types and others are tangerine. Then just mix up everything else.
In any case it’s still worth trying to cross just because it’s interesting.
I need to grow some 97L97 this year for fresh seed
This is me with ~50 varieties of lettuce. The most underappreciated crop for flavor.
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hmm… could those plants be holding the run off on such a steep slope?
that’s cute, those sadly don’t exist anywhere near me. I would’ve been involved long ago had I found one locally. Hence I just started Ninja Gardening. Hoping to eventually move out where there’s more opportunity.
Pewpew preppers, probably don’t want to be approached or talked to anyways, unless I don’t mind receiving a free bullet (which I do so I don’t want to fuck around just to find out).
Preppers seem like a very niche group, despite the crazy recent shit going on & the crazy world we live in.
Interesting… do you have a photo of just how orange Tomatoes can get?
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Are there any posts in which you talk about various lettuce flavors? I’d be interested to hear your thoughts/favorites, but don’t want to distract from the tomato chat here.
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I’d have to make one or find one. I have a lot to say.
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The lycopene/carotene biopath is complicated. I wrote up the details several years ago on another forum. Short version, if it is interrupted early enough the result is a green when ripe tomato. Interrupted a bit later and you get yellow tomatoes. At the phytoene stage, it produces tangerine which KBX has. Another step and you get lycopene which makes the fruit red. With a skin modifier, the skin turns clear and the fruit appears pink. Add the b^og gene (beta carotene) and you get orange fruit. Toss in the intensifier gene (mo_b) and beta carotene goes up to 40X. The intensifier gene can affect the biopath at any point. I don’t know for sure if it can be combined with tangerine but there is a very good chance it can.
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Well there’s only one way to find that out. It would be cool if you had the tangerine trait and then got beta carotene with the modifier. In that case it wouldn’t be like purple lettuce.
Yes, they are doing that.
A lot of the preparation would be mapping the hill, what parts are flat and what parts are sloped, figuring out what the subsoil and rock are like. Evaluate what plants to keep, take back to my place (eg the dewberries), or remove from the site over time (eg toxic plants).
We have a somewhat abundant supply of wood chips which we would use to suppress weed growth around the young trees. There would also be over time establishment of at least one other layer closer to ground level.
From the ones that I know, they aren’t going to shoot you for asking a question. They are normal people.
The peppers who focus on firearms typically believe that in a crisis people will be trying to fend for themselves and not really collaborating for group survival. So some may not want a big garden in their yard, since that could make them a target for raiders. Gray man theory.
There are others who do a little garden and a lot of firepower because that’s easier for them to manage with say a demanding career.
Like anything, in a firearms world you’d have to be interested in firearms, self-defense training, the like. If that’s not for you then I wouldn’t recommend it ofc.
Hillbilly is mediocre at best. Have you tried Lucky Cross or Burracker’s Favorite?
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Very interesting… so a ripe Lime-green tomato would be half-way? Also what about the purple color?
Woodchips are such a blessing, abundant resource in the suburbs where tree trimming workers are often cutting trees/branches.
well good! I probably need to talk with more people. Are there forums where I can talk with these people? It’s a reason as to why I got into gardening & foraging, self-reliance + delicious best food money can’t buy.
So I’ve heard but I’ve never tried it.
Purple is from anthocyanin which is a different biopath from carotenoids. Current versions of purple tomatoes are based on 3 genes from wild species identified and combined by Jim Myers into several lines about 25 years ago. There is also a GMO purple tomato which has a snapdragon gene that amps up the anthocyanin biopath. Tomatoes have a complete biopath to produce anthocyanin, but it is deregulated almost to the point of never expressing. But if a regulator gene required to turn that biopath on is placed into the mix, the tomato plant will then express anthocyanin.
You have to be careful when breeding purple tomatoes based on the 3 genes Dr. Myers used. One of them is hiding in a chromosome inversion that makes conventional breeding difficult.
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I use seeds from a local small amish family who hand select and pollenate their varieties. The hillbilly tomato is amazingly delicious and everyone raves about them locally. Like everything else the soil plays a major factor in taste.
Ive never had hillbilly tomato from online genetics, only locally grown amish hillbillies that are premo. They grow many varities but there is a reason hillbilly has been around for many years and will continue to be around for years to come.
Both Lucky Cross and Burracker’s Favorite are mediocre at best. Lol
hmm… by conventional breeding what do you mean?
like controlled crosses & pollinating each individual flowers?
or a gene that makes flowers not self-pollinating & outcrossing? If so, Lofthouse is specifically breeding promiscuous tomatoes this way, very unconventional if that’s what you mean.
Perhaps their hillbilly tomato has been selectivly bred to taste better? or some micro mutations influenced it? Or… perhaps epigenetics of the local soil conditions allow the same genetics to express better including the flavor to be expressed better?
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