This winter, a friend send me a stick of Luo Tian Tian Shi (LTTS). Trying to protect it against both KSDS and winter cold, in mid-May I grafted it to a healthy potted purchased Kaki. The graft popped buds a week ago and is now growing.
Next year I will probably graft scions of LTTS to a bigger in-ground hybrid and also graft it to a rootstock tree that seems free from KSDS. I’ll keep that tree in a pot.
My question is: What then? Of course, I’d like to take advantage of the dominant C-PCNA allele. But how and where?
My understanding is that LTTS is dioecious and female. So I can’t use it as a source of pollen. Rather, I’ll have to choose a pollen source (or sources) that will produce offspring that incorporate LTTS’s non-astringency in an improved, high-quality (sweet, tasty, possibly cold hardy) fruit. My initial thoughts for the pollen donor:
Male flowering Kakis, including mainly (a) PVNAs such as Chocolate, and (b) PCNAs such as Taishu. Ideally, the offspring would be C-PCNA with improved taste and texture (but not improved cold hardiness).
Male-flowering Hybrids, including mainly the recently released monoecious Ukrainian hybrids such as Bozhyi Dar, Universal, and Stepova Krasunya. Ideally, the offspring would be C-PCNA with both improved fruit quality and cold hardiness.
The odds of LTTS passing the C-PCNA allele to its offspring would be ~50%. Those offspring would be ~50% female. So in theory, roughly 25% of offspring should be NA hybrid females.
The first thing is to get it somewhere someone can grow it with natural pollination. The second is to ensure a viable pollinator with D. virginiana genetics is there so it gets pollinated. Does Cliff England have it? Might be a good idea to see if Cliff has any suggestions for a pollinator.
Sometimes my eyes are bigger than my stomach. So just because I have an idea, there’s no guarantee than I can actually execute. In any case, it’ll take me a few years to grow both the LTTS female tree and the monoecious hybrids Bozhy Dar and Universal.
FWIW, I already have the required Kakis (#1) – PVNAs Chocolate and Coffee Cake as well as PCNA Taishu. I have Stepova Krasunya grafted this year to Kasandra but I’d like to create a stand-alone tree. And I hope to graft Bozhyi and Universal next season.
p.s. You may remember that I also proposed crossing JT-02 x the Ukrainians, trying to improve the texture of JT-02 and maybe enhance the flavor.
I’m confused. Why do I need to move the LTTS tree, once I have it? For #1, I already grow Chocolate, Coffee Cake, and Taishu – all of which produce male flowers. For #2, I already grow Stepova Krasunya (though only a 1st year graft) and plan to add Bozhyi Dar and Universal next year. All of these Ukrainian hybrids have DV genetics.
So rather than bring LTTS to the pollen, I’m bringing the pollen to LTTS.
The main weakness of the plan is that ideally I would hand pollinate to ensure the intended paternity. I’ve done that only once, with a pawpaw.
All of the Kakis mentioned in #1 are potted. LTTS is grafted to a potted Kaki. All of the potted trees spend the winter in a detached garage that has never seen the south side of +15 F, thanks to passive geothermal heating.
So the only tree that might seem vulnerable is Stepova Krasunya, which is grafted to Kasandra. Both Stepovsa Krasunya and Kasandra are hardy to -17 F. The coldest day here (Z7A) in 14 years was -7 F; Kasandra suffered zero damage. Even in-ground IKKJ survived, if just barely. I’ve got IKKJ, Giboshi, Sheng, JT-02 and Kasandra in the ground; I’ve never lost a tree to cold.
Also, I’ll take scions from Stepova Krasunya and LTTS to the extent possible, save them in the fridge.
This is a good point, couple years ago I lost one tree that was been grafted few years ago with a Scion that I obtained from abroad and as far as I know I was the only person having that variety but I lost it because of KSDS and now is gone and nobody has this variety in the US.
Yeah I’ve lost many Kakis and hybrids to KSDS, so I’m wary of that risk. That’s why I grafted LTTS and three Ukrainian hybrids only to healthy Kakis and hybrids. I won’t graft them to DV rootstock unless I’m confident that it is clean.
As yet I haven’t lost any persimmons to cold but that’s because I have been cautious. While I have IKKJ, Sheng, and Giboshi in the ground, I have Saijo, Chocolate, Coffee Cake, Taishu, Izu, and Nikita’s Gift in pots.
I’m very grateful to the friends who gave me LTTS, Dar Sofiyivki, Stepova Krasunya, and Kolgospnytsya. I am doing my best to protect them here. So far this year’s grafts of all four have yielded success with Dar Sof grafted to stand alone DV (which I’m praying is free of disease), LTTS grafted to a potted Kaki, and the other two grafted to in-ground Kasandra.
I realize that my report re Dar Sof seems to contradict my statement that I wouldn’t use DV rootstock unless. I actually made two grafts, one on DV and one on Kasandra. The DV graft has taken and is growing well. The back-up graft of Dar Sof on Kasandra so far has not popped.
I started this thread under the impression that LTTS is dioecious, female. Re-reading the attached thread, I see an authoritative assertion that LTTS has male flowers. Post #1853, or close. Can anyone confirm? Thx.