I guess you have never seen glyphosate kill a 50 ft tree. @HNEUFELD gives a good explanation of things to consider when using it. Also it can take a week to several weeks before killing a plant depending on weather and growth rate of the plant. It will kill a tree but that my take months.
I prefer a selective herbicide for broadleaf brush/weeds. That way nice grass fills in, and is very easy to kill if need be.
Crossbow is an excellent choice for a selective herbicide for broadleaf brush/trees. As Dutch and Danzeb point out, Glyphosate will kill just about anything (depending on the strength it’s mixed at). It won’t kill bindweed and a few other resistant weeds. But it takes everything down to dirt and then the weeds have a good competition free seed bed to spring forth. That’s why I actually prefer a selective broadleaf herbicide.
This year I used Alion as a pre-emergent. Here is a pic. You can see some of the trees have wood chips under them, but still there is a fairly distinct spray line where grass/weeds were suppressed.
![KIMG0915[1]](https://d55v7rs15ikf5.cloudfront.net/original/3X/7/9/7964d6cafec5d2fea6ff4b717edcb826970f9d10.JPG)
Imo, it doesn’t work quite as well as Sinbar, but good enough. Alion isn’t super cost prohibitive either. I think a quart is b/t $150-$200. A quart will cover quite a bit of ground and probably a life-time supply for a backyard grower.
Thank you so much Olpea! Do you have a recommended supplier?
I just did a google search and it looks like Alion is about $430/quart. I could possibly swing $150-$200, but this might be a little over budget for me. If you have a cheaper alternative, I’d love to hear about it.
You might look at Goal 2XL or Goal Tender for pre-emergence and post-emergence control. Both can be mixed with glyphosate. Both cost about the same but Goal Tender is 1 gallon and Goal 2XL is 2.5 gallons. I don’t know enough about the differences.
Google Shopping You should Google for other prices. This was a just a fast search I did.
Goal Tender Label (see page 19)
Goal Tender
Goal 2XL (see page 28)
Goal 2XL
Dax
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Thanks much Dax!! They look semi equivalent cost wise as the 2xl says to apply at double the rate. Has anyone here used either of these? At about $170 a container I’ll say this falls into my acceptable range. Dang, this is an expensive hobby.
Hmm,
I don’t think I paid near that for a quart, but my memory may be faulty on this one. I’m at the orchard now
I’ll look when I get home.
I buy this chemical from Deerfield Supplies in KY. They are an Amish outfit, so they don’t have an online presence.
They offer 8% discount every year if you order in early March.
I haven’t used Goal, but a lot of these cheaper herbicides don’t work very good.
I started out using Simazine (a form of atrazine) but it doesn’t offer very good control at all. It is super cheap though. Goal may be different. I looked at it at one time, but can’t remember why I didn’t use it.
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I know people who’ve been using Goal for decades. I’ve seen one garden in particular where it’s used and it’s spotless. A lot of conifer grafters use it over their potted nursery stock and then 15-20 minutes (something like that) later they water over it. Keeps their pots clean thru the spring/summer.
One other person that used to be a huge conifer presence used granular goal in his collection. I asked him about it more than a decade ago. All I can tell you is there are people that use it yearly.
Bayer product from Menard’s didn’t do squat for me. That’s as far as I’ve gotten with pre-emergence and post-emergence herbicides. So, going on a very good friend’s garden and nursery as well as the other old-timer I emailed that decade ago.
I am sure my friend uses glyphosate along with it to zap everything really well. Problem is if I call him I may be on the phone for an hour or more. If I do, I’ll ask him his honest opinion of how well it controls weeds and how many applications or application it may have taken to keep his conifer garden pristine.
Dax
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I just talked with him and he said if he sprays goal before weeds are present it lasts most of the year/‘all year’. He said with any herbicide there’s 98% effectiveness and there will always be “tough weeds” that need to be retreated in “certain areas.”
He said if he sprays goal after the weeds have emerged he uses glyphosate just as I said and it’s as good as the pre-emergence spray.
He said it’s a very good product.
He uses the 2.5 gallon Goal 2XL.
Dax
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I checked my invoice for Alion, and you’re right. I paid $378/quart. I don’t know how my mind came up with $200/quart. It runs about $65/acre which is what the better pre-emergent herbicides run for orchards. Sorry for the wild goose chase on that one. I never would have mentioned it had I remembered it cost that much.
Dax,
I looked on the 2018 Midwest spray guide and Goal doesn’t rate all that highly. I certainly don’t doubt your friend’s experience, but a lot of factors can affect weed control. I wouldn’t agree with the statement any herbicide has 98% effectiveness. I’ve used Princep (Simazine) as I mentioned. I’ve also used Karmex. These pre-emergents don’t perform very well, compared to Sinbar and Alion.
Following is a link of the Midwest Spray Guide. If interested, look on page 165 to see the efficacy of various herbicides. You can see how herbicides compare with one another. Goal doesn’t seem to compare favorably with Alion.
Of course this doesn’t present a complete picture because the biggest weakness of most pre-emergent herbicides is the length of time of their activity, which the chart doesn’t show. As I recall that is the big plus of Alion and Sinbar, which matches my experience. They have some of the longest activity for weed control. That’s always been the drawback of other pre-emergents I’ve used. Again I don’t doubt your friend’s experience, but herbicide effectiveness is highly dependent on a number of factors, including rainfall, amount of weed seed, length of growing season, etc.
Still, I don’t want to ignore a potential cost savings (even though I’ll admit I’m skeptical for the aforementioned reasons) so tonight I emailed a guy out of NCSU, who is a recognized national expert in orchard floor management, about the efficacy of Goal. I’ll post back about his comments, if he writes me back.
I’d also like to invite @blueberrythrill for his comments in this regard. I’m sure he’d like cheaper options too. What say you Rick?
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I use some cheap premergents like Simizine along with more expensive pre like Sinbar and Alion.
Alion works very well, can be sprayed multiple times and has a short PHI (14 days) but it’s a very expensive purchase. I paid $350 for my quart but it only takes 3.5 oz/acre. The price per acre is reasonable, but it takes a long time to use the quart and it can not freeze.
I agree that Simizine does not work as well as Sinbar or Alion. It also has a 100 day PHI on apples.
I have never used Karmex. or Goal.
Most of the pre need rain after application to activate the herbicide.
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Ok, so does anyone want to split a bottle of Alion? 
I want to do something. Maybe I have to bite the bullet and spend the money. Sometimes it’s cheaper to spend a little more intially.
I have seen it recommended but never used it. How did it work for you?
Looks like Goal must be applied early - before bud swell - From SE Apple Grower Guide
Oxyfluorfen,Goal 2XL, Galigan(2 to 8 pints per acre) GoalTender 4EC(1 to 4 pints per acre), Galigan H2O (1 to 3 pints per acre) Oxyfluorfen will provide PRE control of broadleaf weeds, especially nightshade, groundcherry, and pigweed. DO NOTapply oxyfluorfen from the period after buds start to swell until completion of final harvest. Avoid anyactivity that may disturb the soil surface once oxyfluorfen has been applied. Rainfall is needed within 3 to 4 weeks to activate the herbicide. Oxyfluorfen may be tank mixed with Devrinol, paraquat, Kerb, glyphosate, simazine, Solicam, and Surflan
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I still use a bit of Karmex use Simazine. They are both weak and are best used as a tank mix with another herbicide. I’ll probably quit using Simazine altogether.
I wish I could find a decent and safe herbicide to kill bindweed around trees. I fight this every year and just spent a few hours a couple days ago hand spraying bindweed with glyphosate to at least slow it down. Glyphosate won’t kill it, but will dry up the tops and keep it from going to seed, but the bindweed springs back from the roots.
I’m a little afraid of using powerful broad leaf killers around trees, plus it has to be labeled for peach trees.
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Olpea, I liked your comment because I fight with bindweed in the same way every year. Years ago I went through and sifted my soil to remove all those spaghetti-like roots, but as long as it has safe haven in the neighbor’s yards I can’t fully eradicate it. I too would love a solution to it (bindweed)
Between that and creeping Charlie those 2 are about 95% of my wheedling problems.
Scott
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This is the glypho I bought recently at Rural King. It’s 41%. A gallon is about $16 and 2.5 gallons is $33
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I bought this one. 5 gallon…
I have a huge Morning Glory problem in the blackberries where the herbicide runs out in June - It happens each year. I run the mower as close as possible to the row but have not been able to get them under control. Tried some Matrox this year which can be sprayed when the new blackberry canes are several feet tall. Since it is sprayed so late, I hope it will take care of the Morning Glories.
Lots of shade in the peach orchard really helps control the weeds. but the Sinbar and Simizine that I sprayed in early March runs out also. A dose of Alion about this time of the year will control the weeds through harvest.
Overall, my weed control gets a little better each year. I learned through trial and error that spraying pre-emergent from the tractor really saves me a lot of time. I use a 25 gal 12 VDC sprayer with a switch and several differient nozzle placements depending on the crop. 25 gal will spray a 2 foot band down about .6 acre.
Looks like its going to take 3 sprays per year. Once after harvest, once in early spring and once before harvest with something with a short PHI like Alion or Matrox
The biggest problem I have in blackberries is horse weed. I wish I could get rid of it, but we have to hand pull it. It spreads by the roots, like blackberries, so any herbicide really lethal to it can’t be used on the blackberries.
I’ve mixed Simazine before with gramoxone on non bearing trees. It’s supposed to boost the effect of gramoxone, but I couldn’t tell it did anything.
I used Simazine last year as a pre emergent for sweet corn, and it worked some just doesn’t last long.
