Cant find a topic or discussion on this.
Young fruit trees are planted 10-12ft spacing. I want to fill in those gaps.
I know i can grow rasps and blackberries. Can i grow blueberries inbetween there? Haskaps?
Except for The Permaculture Orchard i cant really even find any pics of this…but he plants all kinds of shrubs in between his fruit trees.
Main question is for blueberries… but open to other edible things that would thrive in the ‘in between’.
I planted goumi. They don’t seem to like TX summers though, better in part sun. Various herbs like rosemary, oregano and thyme too. I have salvias and bee balms as taller ground cover.
I plan to plant haskaps and maybe some aronia between my fruit trees. Blueberries have special pH requirements that I’m not interesting in messing with. Planning for herbs and pollinator friendly plants as well.
Drought tolerance needed in proposed situation. Currants, for example, need supplemental irrigating.
orchard grass. doesn’t spread through root runners
I have planted Black currants between fruit trees a lot. Haskap I would rather do full rows in alleys not in row because likely need for nets and pollination companions. Some of our main trees are 33 feet apart, some 12ft.
I plant Raspberries between Walnuts, because I read they are more juglon tolerant.
I also have planted daylily, comfrey, siberian pea shrub, eleagnus multifora, sea buckthorn(9ft max, “short varieties”) and some gooseberries…
with our climate and tastebuds shade tolerant, big, sweet black currants are our favorite. like these from limbach (europe nrusery)
A bit old and late dry summer but none the less! here are some b. currants with woven plastic and woodchips
I do this in a single row style because i don’t want to mow that area anyhow. I would not crowd plants around all sides of a tree.
I plant strawberries between/under the trees
One issue would be if you end up spraying the fruit trees, even though you may plan to go organic at this time. If the understory blooms later than the fruit, you could kill the bees. Also, bushes underfoot make it hard to access the trees to bag, prune, fence, etc. Been there, done that.
I have seen this topic repeatedly over the years, and I assume “planting…between fruit trees” still allows room for harvest and pruning without watching every footfall. I can’t imagine having other plants in close proximity to my quince tree; ladder placement would have to be done very gingerly and deliberately. When pruning, I like to stand back every few minutes and gauge my progress–would be tricky amongst other plants.
I’m assuming the fruit trees are permanent and not seedlings for later sale. 10-12 feet sounds like you should not plant anything you intend to be long-term. Look at the circle needed by the full sized tree. For some things, you are likely already too close. As @LarryGene stated, you’re going to need to harvest. If something is directly under your crop, that is going to get tricky.
In broad terms, I’d look at things like comfrey or horseradish that you can just mow over and let be compost. Avoid things that are going to draw pests or be too easy a vector for some other pathogen. (E.G. Things pollinated by flies should likely not be planted next to things eaten by flies. “Forest Garden” texts or threads will give you other things to think about.
In narrower terms, establish where your paths and go ahead and start mulching/graveling/pavement stoning where they will be and then put your vegetables and annuals, and short-lived perennials in the meridians not yet commanded by the younger trees so when the trees get big enough you don’t have to remove or replace something complicated.
Got around 45 inches rainfall last year…and lost Black September currant to drought…about 3 feet from a recently planted apple tree. Maybe try some more again though.
besides what others have mentioned, i have rhubarb planted under alot of my trees. grows as easy as comfrey but gives you something to eat and ok to get spray on. i plan to sell some at the country store i work at next spring. most of the time i let it go to waste as i cant use it fast enough.
In Germany we had the worst drought in about 100 years last year. Only some fresh cuttings of b currant didnt survive, the fruits even handled the heat better than gooseberries, josta berries and white/Red currants. after a winter they seem to be bullet proof for us.
The mice really do damage to our rhubarb which i have also planted around tree but not many remain alive. same happens with asparagus…
I’m also becoming more and more of a fan of blackcurrant. Do you have a link to that nursery for me?
More on topic.
I plan on growing herbs and strawberry’s between/below my tree’s. And plan to grow currants blackberry raspberry and other fruit shrubs in the rows. (semi shaded by my tree’s) But i don’t need to mow the rows and plan on espaliering my tree’s to keep them easily reachable.
I think what would work well depends on a lot of factors. Do you have irrigation? If not the tree’s might outcompete your fruits between them for water etc. What microclimate does the interplanted fruit like? For me, for health and ease of care. Currants planted in half shade seem to do better than full sun. Although with a bit more care (irrigation) the full sun plants outcrop the half shade plants.
I know that stephan sobkowiak says to just try it…and if it grows like a weed then keep it. if it struggles then remove it and keep trying.
The orchard in question is not commercial, just a food forest type setting where i can live with nature and enjoy the walkabouts.
I have seen all of his videos and i dont think i have seen any blueberries mentioned… maybe its due to his sandy soil.
I guess i want rows full of life instead of the traditional style orchard in this new orchard. Polyculture i guess would be the term if i had to label it.
No spraying other than compost tea.
they have some nice varieties of various things and healthy plants.
I have Irrigation only in the greenhouse and 1 row of honeyberries. No irrigation on any fruit tree rows. I mainly hay mulch plants for weed control, or cardboard and woodchips.
I have a foodforest type bed with goumi raspberry blackberry strawberry growing between and in some cases under fruit trees.
Plan to fill in with rhubarb, comfery, for chop and drop mulching and with walking onions garlic chives, chives… and perhaps beebalm, tyme.
I have walking onions in a separate bed…may use those later on. I got into ornamental onions last year and will probably regret it… unless i see the bees really taking to them. This is the video where Stephan talks about comfrey and planting things that grow like weeds.
Thanks!
they seem to only have 2 variety of blackcurrent right now. Both unknown to me though. What specifically makes you like these? And have you compared them to other sweet blackcurrents like Bona, ben sarek and ebony?
I have not tasted the cherny bumer, just planted them last fall. I can give a clear review this fall as I have over 10 varieties B currant planted now. I have about 100 Bona, 300 Hedda, 100 supernova, 50 Titania, 50 Noiroma, Ben hope, Ben Sarek, Daniel’s september, Cherny bumer and the other from limbach.
The description they have on their website is very impressive for the variety i linked above. Even if the fruits are half sized because i dont fertigate them I am still impressed.
Cherny bumer: " Fruits: bunches long, averaging 8 cm. Berries extremely large, 5 to 7 g,"
Bona Fruits are about 2 Grams.
Titania 1-2 Grams.
some comparisons in the link for using titania as a reference point shows 5+ Grams per berry is very unusual also the 8cm stems makes picking twice as fast by hand.
https://agresearch.montana.edu/warc/research_current/berries/currants.html
